Hard 5 - Soft 8

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Slippy, May 25, 2006.

  1. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    detroit
    diop couldn't hold darko's jock strap. darko showed this earlier in the season. darko has better offensive game and better passing ability. he's quicker too. whatever you call him he would be great to have coming off the pistons bench. darko hits free throws. you also can't play zone off of darko cause he'll burn you with the J. lee357 called it when he said we'd have a hard time against miami without darko. whether you like to admit it or not darko plays well against miami.
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    19,888
    Likes Received:
    1,730
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    I'll give you that. He really wiped the floor all shiny and dry with his shorts when Shaq was knocking him around.
  3. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    detroit
    everybody gets knocked around by shaq. he does no worse than ben against shaq. the difference is darko will make shaq work on defense. darko will also hit his free throws when he gets fouled.

    he dunked on zo. who was stuffs your boy ben's dunks on a regular basis.
  4. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,030
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Oberlin
    faint praise?

    i have a great shot if you pass it to me and don't ask me to move.

    whether it's rip or evans or delk or someone else, i'm afraid that against miami we're probably going to need to you to move AND have a great shot.
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    19,888
    Likes Received:
    1,730
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    And you seem to think that playing Delfino on Wade is the solution? Where does Rip play? On Walker? Maybe we should just scrap the starters so Delfino can play Wade and redeem all of his adamant fans.

    You are the one who introduced massaging larger egoes. Remember?

    Rather than argue semantics, why not present tangible examples? Do you have any?

    I have no idea where you are going with this.

    Shaq never gets "punished" for having a rough go or playing with low energy. Non-performance is dribbling the ball off your foot against Toronto. It's bricking your Js and FTs. It's getting cute with one handed dunks, but instead of finishing like Tayshaun, getting blocked by the heel.

    I like Davis. I wished he would play. But he hasn't. Sure he's a professional but to expect him to come in and play now, is......

    Good list. I like how Delfino gets onto some teams as a 2 and some as a 3. He's a 3. He's incapable of shooting efficiently enough to be a 2.

    No. I view Delfino as a poor man's Carlos Delfino. It's laughable that you draw any comparisons to Corey Maggette. Maggette has a post game. Maggette is a great perimeter shooter. Maggette is a solid FT shooter, particularly in the clutch. If Delfino played like half of Maggette, he would be in the rotation.

    No, they didn't have to be. You attacked my original post to Dave, in which I was trying to defuse the continuing madness that there are all of these magical starters sitting on our bench, being frozen out of having All-Star careers.

    I'll get to the rest later.
  6. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    1,220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco
    I like Tayshaun Prince. I'm not president of his fan club. I don't think he's an All-Star, or even that he's a great defender. I do think that he's overrated by many people. But he works hard, he's smart, and he has a skillset that is useful to the team. He's a fantastic role player. He's not a star, and just because I frequently try to tear down the Tayshaun-star construct that some people have doesn't mean I don't like him as the role player that he is.

    But the roles that he can play are not needed, or even helpful, for the Pistons to take advantage of every situation.
  7. linwood

    linwood All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    4,280
    Likes Received:
    1,213
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Tayshaun would start on any NBA team. If he played for almost any team except those still standing or the Spurs, he would probably be the first or second option. Delfino would still come off the bench.
  8. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    detroit
    kerr and paxson and others made careers of just shooting the ball when passed to them. mo can do more than just be a spot up shooter. he can defend and he is at least active on the offensive boards. rip barely ventures near the boards. i just think that if rip is missing what's the difference than having evans in there missing???
  9. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,215
    Likes Received:
    341
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    It had to get better. BBen is out playing Dyess right now.
    And Tay is making his opportunities. He is the only one having consistant success penetrating.
  10. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    1,220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Antoine Walker is a power forward. Tayshaun Prince cannot guard Antoine Walker. Carlos Delfino cannot guard Antoine Walker. Maurice Evans cannot guard Antoine Walker. I don't know if Rip Hamilton can guard him, but I doubt it. The player on the roster best suited to guarding Antoine Walker is Rasheed Wallace. The perimeter player in the starting lineup best suited to guard him is probably Chauncey Billups. Delfino on Wade is a possible solution to a real problem, adamant fans or no.
    Because I don't want to stoop to that level.
    You're drawing a distinction that doesn't exist.
    Exactly the point of this thread.
    Incapable? Even if you're God, I trust my eyes. He has good form on his jumpshot.
    Maggette has a post game? I've watched him play for years, and I've never seen many signs of that. Delfino has a limited post game, but nobody who's watched either of them would seriously call them post-up scorers. Maggette is a very, very streaky perimeter shooter, just as Delfino is. Maggette is a higher-percentage free throw shooter than Delfino is. They're both excellent rebounders for their size. I might give Delfino the advantage in defense and passing, and I certainly would hope he has a higher basketball IQ, but their slashing games are remarkably similar. And the "he would be in the rotation" is at the crux of our disagreement. I don't have a high enough opinion of Flip to believe that would be the case.
    Precisely what I mean by overrated. He isn't a first option on any team in the NBA. I'm not certain he's a second option on any team in the NBA.
  11. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,281
    Likes Received:
    287
    bballjay - If you believe Dyess is better than Ben Wallace then I see there is no point continuing this discussion with you.

    ahb - My main point is when you have 5 quality starters your bench is not going to get a lot of burn. Perhaps during the reg season Flip could have used them more to keep them sharp ( i.e. Delfino tonight rust city ) but he didn't and its too late at this point. Like Micro pointed out there are no more back-backs and the timeouts have been increased in length so the Starters can handle major mins and we will continue to get key play from Dyess and Hunter off the bench.
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    19,888
    Likes Received:
    1,730
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Darko didn't make Shaq work on defense. What a joke. Shaq sees that 18 foot thunder brick go up, and backs right into rebounding position. Ben's picked up what, 7 fouls on Shaq in 2 games? Even if he bricks the FTs, at least he's a man in the paint, challenging Shaq and fighting for boards. Taking the elbow smashes in the face and coming back for more.

    I'm beginning to wonder if you Darkonaughts are straight between the ears. Fellow DHOFer Dave from G-Rap predicted a loss tonight. It's like you guys are more concerned with seeing the Pistons fail so you can be right about Darko than reppin' the "D".

    I'm not one to say people like that are not fans, but I do believe they are lousy fans when they predict losses and diss the guys giving up their bodies to win.
  13. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,215
    Likes Received:
    341
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    BBen has been slacking. He did not tonight. Can't complain when he goes allstar.
  14. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    detroit
    darko would make shaq work on defense. shaq has to check darko on the pick and pop. it's the same play we run with mcdyess in there. the pistons didn't use darko right. i dont' think darko was even in the game much when shaq was in there. if we went to darko he could deliver against shaq. it's not to diss ben it's to say that ben isn't effective checking shaq in general so why not have an offensive center in there that will do the best thing to defend shaq and that's tire him out.

    it's like some of you would rather diss darko than admit that the pistons made a mistake letting him go. it didn't have to be ben or darko it could have been both of them. at least for this season anyway. even when ben misses 13 straight free throws you guys drool over intangibles. ben had a great game last game i'll give him that but he doesn't get a pass for being an offensive liability in general.

    i'm right about darko whether the pistons win or not. i said he was a good player. i didn't say he was better than any of our big 3. i'm a pistons fan but i like the players too and don't want them getting raw deals.

    i think darko could take elbows to the mouth just as effectively as ben.
  15. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    detroit
    i agree it's not even close. 1 dimensional vs 2 dimensional. 4 on 5 on offense vs 5 on 5 on offense. dice is a 20 and 10 player he just isn't getting the minutes. he's regained close to his younger form and we are wasting it on the bench.
  16. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    3,396
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Amish Hood
    BBall,
    Let's get this straight... Darko does not come close to the multiple hustle points that Ben gets...not even close.
    Does Darko strike you as someone that will come back strong after taking one in the chops?
    We've seen Shaq dominate Darko with the Magic... there's no silver bullet there.
  17. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    detroit
    ben does get more hustle points than darko. he has to make up for lack of talent. darko can do lots of things without even trying. i still think ben is a better player than darko right now. i just think darko could have helped us against shaq instead of just trying to work ben no offense wallace into the offense. there is no hack a darko and no laying off darko playing zone and double teaming off of him.

    darko strikes me as the type to give one back in the chops to shaq after taking one. i've never seen darko back down to anybody in the league. not even when he went up against the pistons.

    i didn't see that game but darko only played 11 minutes. the league wasn't calling shaq as tightly when darko played him. i'm not saying darko could defend shaq better than ben. i'm saying darko would be better offensively against shaq than ben. there would be no laying back in the paint stuffing rips shots all the time. wait a year and see if shaq is still dominating darko. 16 points in a game isn't hardly domination.
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    19,888
    Likes Received:
    1,730
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Heart is a talent. You have to be born with it.

    You cannot buy it, no matter how many jumpers you take, how fast you run, how high you can jump, or how tall you have grown.

    Heart is talent. It's the rarest commodity. You can find lots of 7 foot Euros with a shooting touch and the ability to put the ball on the floor. It's the ones with heart that rise to the top.

    The jury is still out on YKW.
  19. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,587
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Sterling Heights, MI
    bball jay you are so blind it's ridiculous. you double-talk constantly too, talking about how darko is better than ben but then saying you never said that. then you want mcdyess in instead of ben??? are you NUTS??? if anything dice should be in for rasheed who has largely struggled. not only does ben defend shaq better than anyone in the league and has proven that 3 straight years, he doesn't get into foul trouble against him.

    and guess what, he's 7-for-7 this series on offense AND has made some beautiful passes for easy scores into the post. last night instead of trying to score himself, he got the ball on offense and made things happen with other players, which kept him happy, led to some easy baskets, and forced miami to check him.

    ahb i hope you keep dissing prince because this is the 2nd time in a row he's lit it up hours after you put him down. i think he's underrated.

    and on a final sidenote, i normally don't nitpick on spelling but when i read the word 'consistent' spelled incorrectly (it is NOT 'consistant') 30 times in the span of two days, i have to mention it. :)
  20. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    detroit
    darko is better than ben at certain aspects of the game that's undeniable.

    yes. i like mcdyess better than ben because he's a complete player. he is a 20 and 10 guy if given the minutes. ben is a 6 and 12 guy plus "intangibles". i may be the only one that notices it but mcdyess does lots of those intangibles plays too. he tips out rebounds, he blocks shots, he takes charges, he sets good picks. mcdyess right now just doesn't get the benefit of calls but i think this is because he's a sub. the best defense against shaq is to make him work on defense and tire out ben can't accomplish this.

    what's his stats from the free throw line?? he had a good game last game i'll give him that. i wouldn't say forced miami to check him. shaq was roaming down there and blocking shots. he is still no offensive threat whether you pass him the ball or not. i hope he isn't encouraged by this game to be more offensive minded. stick to what you're good at.

Share This Page