Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by The Low, Apr 21, 2007.
Surely you don't contest that Pistons players never claimed this?
Ben got what he wanted. He got 60 million, and he earned the money.
Ben got what he wanted. New goals with a different organization. The ability to be considered the veteran leader of the team. He left at the right time for him. Chicago fans loves him as he lead his team past the first round. Ben misses his Detroit friends (former teammates) but he now plays........CHICAGO BASKETBALL...........doesn't sound right !!!!!!!
Funny, but Skiles and Flip have fairly similar philosophies. The only difference I see is that Skiles was less likely to take crap from Ben out of the gate.
This weekend Ben will remain an ex-Pistons, an ex-Pistons who will try and stick it to his old team.
If you think Ben was mistreated and want to see a nice playoff run sacraficed so Ben can have his revenge and Dumars taught a lesson then so be it. Or if you just want to see Ben do well and let chips fall where they will, then feel free.
It is comming though, make no mistake about that.
With all things being equal the Pistons should win this series. So it is kind of test of coaching styles and bbal philosophy of how Ben thinks the game should be played ( since he partly left the Pistons for it ) versus the new direction that we have gone in.
Which side of the fence are you going to be on?
I see some other differences.
I don't know or care everything they've claimed. But if they did claim this, they were either stupid or lying.
I suppose this isn't worth discussing if you don't realize how many Pistons (including Ben Wallace) were saying this for many, many years.
I'd like to not think the players I root for are only either stupid or lying.
I see minute ones.
My favorite fabricated one, however, is the one about Saunders not concentrating on defense.
Personally, my favorite fabrication is that Ben Wallace did concentrate on defense.
After all, the Pistons fielded the best defensive team they've had since the late '80s when Nazr Mohammed was in the starting lineup.
Great. Next you'll tell us that "time to go to work" is just a marketing slogan.
Speaking of coaches, did anyone notice how Chauncey Billups called Orlando a "well coached team"?
Is he being serious, or angling for the negotiations?
I just disagree. Skiles' approach does have a distinctively more defensive approach no matter how you slice it. The point is not to say that Flip should have played Ben 48 min/game no matter what the circumstances. The point is that Saunders and Skiles have very different methods as to when and why to substitute Ben Wallace. Brown used Wallace effectively without having to "never" pull him from the game and Skiles has followed a path that is closer to how Larry Brown used to use Ben Wallace than Flip Saunders.
Substitutions alone are not the sole amunition for Wallace going "ballistic." Saunders' coaching methods are not condusive to maximizing Ben Wallace's talent. Wallace realized it and Saunders should have paid attention to what was successful before he arrived and at least incorporated some of the approach considering his playoff record prior to arriving was questionable at best.
If it makes you feel more like a true Pistons fan to basically invent character flaws in an ex-player, I hope it's working.
That is completely unfounded.
What playoff record are you talking about? The one where the Wolves were never favored in all but one of the series and pretty always got to face the Spurs or the Lakers?
LB is a great coach and was the right person at the right time. Joe D himself said Flip coached tentatively the first season as he didn't want to rock the boat with a group of established players. Is Flip a great coach, no, but he is not a bum that is often suggested. Ben did and does have a big ego, no critcism of his contribution as player, but he didn't like what he saw and acted on it in his own way. I am not trying to defend Flip, but there has to be some balance in criticizing him too. RC got booted out of Indy, he is a very good defensive coach who wears on his players and can't seem to get them over the hump.
I think the Bulls series will tell us a lot more about Flip and the players. Let's give him a chance.
You can also include the 04 ECF when they were the higher seed and still lost to the Lakers. I didn't like Cola as coach either, the same way I don't like Flip as coach. As you said, he is not a great coach. That means, there is definitely someone better than him we could have hired instead of just handing him the job once LB was pushed out the door.
I don't like the way he coaches and if he proves me wrong by winning it all, I'll be the first to admit it. But, personally I don't like him as coach and would rather Joe D had spent more time looking for candidates. As inept as Cola was...Ben Wallace wasn't begging for a trade. As much of a "drama king" as many here make LB out to be, Ben Wallace wasn't itching to get out of town (and his trade value couldn't have been higher than at this point). Lo and behold here comes Saunders and next thing we know, we're triple teaming Lebron, Wade, and Shaq...getting humiliated by CLE into a 7 game series, and getting bounced by a team we should have beaten and our best defensive player is outta here.
It's simply amazing how the guy that has accomplished the least has the most supporters. Call me crazy
But, then again everyone cried like babies when Cola was fired so I guess I shouldn't be surprised in the regular season wins love-fest.
The Cleveland series was as much Flip's coaching as it was the players. They could'nt hit the broad side of barn from the field and made mistakes that a veteran team shouldn't have. Should Flip have stepped in and taken a harder approach, yeas, but all the hype was that the Pistons were a bunch of players who could turn on the switch and take it to another level. Joe D has identified this weakness many times. In some ways the team has too much cockiness. No love or dislike for Flip, just waiting to see the results speak for themselves. Ben did the right thing, get the best contract he could. I would have loved to see him in a Pistons uniform but not at that price and it was clear that he and Flip couldn't co-exist.
...which is precisely why I don't feel bad about hoping he does well.
I have my own feelings about what Saunders could have done during that CLE series...but they ain't paying me to screw it up so it doesn't make much difference.
I hope he does well too, just not against the Pistons. He was a sight to watch in the Miami series, got into Shaq's head, rebounds, tips etc. Looked like the Ben of old.
I'm just going to point out the obvious here.
How we "root" is not going to affect the outcome of the games. If Low wants to root for Ben Wallace, then he should do it. Judging by the 966 posts, he is obviously a Pistons fan.
Whoa...just last week I was at 79 trying to get into playoff chat...
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