Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by markie8002000, Jun 13, 2009.
I expect Darth to respond to roscoe's post in ...3 ...2 ...1.
Looks like the magic want to keep him...
Magic: Luxury tax no 'hindrance' to re-up Turkoglu - FOX Sports on MSN
So the Magic who have been LOSING money is going to the lux tax?
I agree with you guys. It's dumb to spend money on Boozer, just because he's the "best FA" in this FA class.
Trading is the way to go imo.
Why? Is there a model along these lines that has been successfully implemented in the past?
...the past is irrelevant.
...the present is unattainable.
...the FUTURE is all that really matters.
As far as this year's free agents go, the best available players aren't all that great. So why use up a bunch of cap space to sign 'em???
Save your cash to snake some players from financially strapped teams in trades.
Sign some young and hungry guys on the cheap to find that "diamond in the rough" type player.
Make a serious run at one or more free agents in NEXT year's class.
RealGM: 2010 Free Agents
Everyone is talking about Kobe, Lebron & Wade but there's a lot of other names on this list that are worth saving some cap-space for.
can we get a poll for wanted FA/draft picks? See how we fare and seeing how the season goes will we have beackpedalers or bandwagoneers.
I agree with BDL. I would much rather see the Pistons save their money for next year than spend it this year on marginal talent just for the sake of getting someone new.
2009 Free Agents
2010 Free Agents
After looking at the free agent lists for this Summer and next I now think Joe's plan is to make as much cap space as possible for his ultimate goal of re-signing Amir in 2010. But seriously, if you look at the names that are available next summer there's no comparison. Even if LeBron and D-Wade won't come here we could still have a shot at Joe Johnson, Dirk Nowizki, Amare Stoudemire, Chris Bosh, Michael Redd, Manu Ginobili, etc... Compare that with this year where we're talking about Ben Gordon, Ron Artest, Paul Millsap, etc... Those are pretty good players in their own right but the talent gap between the two classes is significant. I personally would like to see Joe go out and get one or none of this year's FAs and focus on next Summer. Better yet he could try and package what we have now to make a trade for one of these players that are more than likely not going to re-sign and offer an extension with the Pistons (Bosh anyone?).
At this point in Piston history...Rajon Rondo is looking good.
That's a cop out and you know it. There's no successful way to rebuild a team that has not been done before. What you are saying is that we should be like Sterling's Clippers before he started spending money for a season (you know, a couple of posts back where you stated we should field a team of NBDL all-stars), and then suddenly become a contender the very next season on the strength of a good FA class. Baloney. And you know it.
Other than that, I mostly agree with what you are saying :
- Yes, there is no need to strictly pursue this summers crop of FAs. We can take on salaries without giving anything in return. There are teams looking to dump salaries for the sake of it. I have been arguing this very point not long after we traded Billups. The point is, teams are looking to dump this summer, and if there any real bargains to be had, they are just as likely to be had now as much as later, so I don't see your point.
- Yes, we should seek out diamonds in the rough. But we can do that without fielding a bunch of NBDL guys. There's things called summer league, 10-day contracts, and in season practice, where diamonds can be found and polished. As Jerry Sloan has always stated, winning is and always will be the goal as far as he is concerned. Why should we lower our standards, especially when there is absolutely no need to?
- As for waiting for 2010's FA class. Sure we could do that. But that does not necessarily mean we need to field a bunch of NBDL guys in the meantime. And, more to the point, if we can upgrade the team THIS summer, with trades and WILLING FAs, then why wait? There's never any guarantees some of those 2010 FAs will come to Detroit. So it makes absolutely NO SENSE to pass on a quality FA who does want to sign with us this summer. Its not like Detroit is one of the top ten destinations for FAs. It has never been. Witness Joel Pryzbilla for goodness sakes. Its cold. There's no beach. Ernie lurks on this forum. And you are sure to be penetrated by a frozen banana at some stage during the season, whether you consent or not.
Bring on Ben Gordon!
I'd take Rondo over Stuckey any day.
Exactly...but 4 years ago...he doesn't get a 2nd look.
Rondo is the real deal. The most craft PG since Payton. But even if we set aside cap space for him, we are going to have some competition from at least a couple of others teams too (especially the team holding his Bird rights), and that is not including sign and trade deals Boston will potentially be exploring.
I guess I was being a little sarcastic about rolling with a bunch of D-Leaguers. I totally agree with you as far as trades go. I think some major steps can be made THIS summer through trades. The cool thing is that with the Pistons current cap situation, Joe will be negotiating with teams from a position of power. He can take on more salary.
I think the only area that we differ is in regard to the '09 FA class. IMO, there aren't a lot of guys on that list that are worth 10 million bucks. Which is why I feel strongly that we should punt on signing a bunch of free agents THIS summer. With the exception of maybe Trevor Ariza, I don't see a lot of guys out there that are worth their asking price. Mos def not a "major" move, but I'd like to see Joe take a look at signing Von Wafer of the Rockets. He'd can be had for 1.5 - 3 million per and is the type of young/hungry dude that could be a solid bench dude for the next 5 years.
The team that you had mentioned before:
1. Dre Miller
2. Rip / Stuckey
3. Ariza / Prince
4. Amir / Jmax
5. Gortat / Kwame
...I just don't see this group getting out of the 2nd round for the 20+ million dollars that they would require.
I'd rather save the cap space to remain a flexible trade candidate and/or sign one or two FAs from the '10 class.
BDL, we are certainly more in agreement than not.
The lineup I suggested was borne out of the need to play more up tempo. Rip can run all day long. I figured, put the athletic Ariza on the other wing, and have Dre Miller feeding them on the break, with Gortat/Kwame, and Max/Amir gobbling up boards to start with, and the team could achieve much more than what it appears it would on paper. And the bench would not be half bad. And we could still trade Rip or Prince or Stuckey or Max/Amir down the line too. Of course, if we did field such a lineup, it could always turn out to be a turd. Ya never really know til it happens.
As I stated in the "How to think like Joe" thread, Ariza is almost a lock to stay with LA, and I sense Ben Gordon is at the top of Joe's FA list anyway.
I think you're right about Ariza. He's from SoCal which will make it more difficult to pry him away from the Lakers.
I'm hoping that Joe thinks twice about signing Gordon. I'd rather see him wait a year and sign Joe Johnson (aka "Joe the Basketball player"). IMO, Johnson does what Gordon can do on offense AND he can D-up as well.
Maybe since he has spent so much time in CA, he doesn't realize how terrible it would be to live up here in the Midwest.
Agreed. I hope we are not totally forsaking defense in the name of "playing up-tempo". Playing good D is the best way to play up-tempo anyway. Force the other team to miss, get the board, and off to the races. Teams set their D after makes.
Joe Johnson is one of the guys that plays LeBron tough and LeBron isn't going anywhere. Even if he bolts from Cleveland (which I think he will); the Pistons will still have to get past the Knicks in the EC.
Rondo is garbage. His skill set is basically: I'm fast. It works on the Celtics because of the talent around him, but he would be horrible on almost any other team.
Defense is supposed to be his strong suit, and I agree that he is active with quick hands. But he can afford to gamble on steals because he has solid defensive players (Garnett and Perkins) backing him up.
On Offense, he is truly horrible. Outside of using his speed to drive the lane for a layup, he has no game. And half the reason he can drive effectively is because his teammates (Allen, Pierce, Garnett) can pull away any defensive rotation. And any person that comments on his assist/turnover ratio knows nothing about basketball. During a game, Rondo consistently will have wide open jump shots because you don't have to guard him. But instead of shooting (and bricking), he'll pass to a double-teamed Pierce or Allen with 2 seconds left on the shot clock. Pierce and Allen in turn are forced to heave a prayer at the rim. It doesn't count as a turnover, but it should. And occasionally, they'll make the shot, and Rondo will get creditted with an assist. But it was still a horrible play by him.
And mentally, the guy is approaching Ron Artest levels of hot-headed garbage. Witness the Celtics-Bulls playoff series in which he elbowed Brad Miller in the head and yanked/shoved Hinrich into the scorers table. He should have been serving suspensions for that junk.
Fast player with good teammates doesn't mean you're a good player.
I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Unfortunately, I live in the Boston area and therefore am forced to follow the Celtics as they are all the local media pays any attention to and Rondo has game. I agree that he benefits greatly by sharing the floor with the talent he does but Rondo's a well rounded player.
Personally, I can't stand the guy but he does have the skills.
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