How does Flip Saunders rank as an NBA Coach?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by BillLaimbeer, Mar 6, 2007.

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How does Flip Saunders rank among active NBA coaches?

  1. 10 - One of the top 3 coaches in the league

    3.3%
  2. 9 - In the top 6

    23.3%
  3. 8 - In the top 9

    16.7%
  4. 7 - In the top 12

    15.0%
  5. 6 - In the top half

    21.7%
  6. 5 - In the bottom half

    11.7%
  7. 4 - In the bottom 12

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. 3 - In the bottom 9

    3.3%
  9. 2 - In the bottom 6

    1.7%
  10. 1 - One of the worst 3 coaches in the league

    3.3%
  1. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    On a scale of 1 through 10, compare Flip Saunders in overall coaching ability to the other 29 NBA active head coaches.
  2. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Let's do total score. 1 thru 10, 10 equals best.
    Play calling and design ..P&D
    Xs& Os........................X&O
    Leadership, getting the most out of the players...L
    In game Management..[dealing with the refs]......GM
    Substitutions...........................S
    -------------
    P&D...............9
    X&O..............9
    L...................7
    GM................6
    S..................4
    -------------------35 out of 50
  3. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I didn't spend alot of time thinking this one through, so this is a gut feeling. It's hard to argue with the regular season wins, so that puts him in the top half. His teams (Minny and Det) make the playoffs, so that helps.

    However, I can't help but think that at least a dozen coaches may have the same success given the teams that Flip has coached.

    Riley (current champ)
    Jackson (winningest coach alive)
    Popovich(always a contendah)
    Brown (out of the league, but close to my heart)
    D'Antoni (keep running, baby!)
    Johnson (runner up, in his first year)
    Nelson (always fun to watch his teams)
    Sloan (tuck your shirt in, son)
    Skiles (defense!...thump thump... defense!)
    McMillan (took the Sonics pretty far with the fancy shootin')
    Thomas (his Pacers were tough, his Knicks are improved)
    Carlisle (for the first two seasons, until the team tunes him out)
    Saunders (best regular season record in Pistons history)
  4. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Here is a list of coaches. It may help you decide. I only saw 8 that I like less than Flip.

    HoopsHype - NBA Coaches
  5. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Flip is the definition of average NBA coach. He does a lot to improve the team. And he does a lot to make the team worse. Larry Brown may be the pinnacle of being the most destructive and the best dang coach in the league at the same time, but Flip sure is trying his best.
  6. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    The five coaches in the top tier are clearly Jackson, Popovich, Johnson, Riley, and Sloan.

    In the second tier I have Nate McMillan, Rick Carlisle, Byron Scott, Scott Skiles, Lawrence Frank, and Mike D'Antoni. That makes twelve.

    Whether he's better than Zeke, Jeff Van Gundy, George Karl, Don Nelson, Mo Cheeks, and a couple of others is questionable and/or a matter of taste. I think he was outcoached by Mike Brown in last year's playoffs, and I'm not sure than Brown is even in this third tier. So, borderline top half.
  7. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Nelson<defense=<Championship~Saunders
  8. pass99

    pass99 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Here are my top ten and although numbered, each have the ability to exceed expectations depending on combined GM-coaching duties, contracts, staff assistants, cap room. Add to this the particular style of play determined by team culture, ownership, market placement and media-fan sophisication.
    1. Popovich
    2. Jackson
    3. Riley
    4. DeAntoni
    5. Karl
    6. Sanders
    7. McMillian
    8. Van Grundy
    9. Nelson
    10. Johnson
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    There is a whole side to coaching that we never see. I don't really know how he does in the film sessions, motivating the team in the locker room, dealing with players' personal issues, etc. I'm open to the possibility that he is good at those things.

    I guess the main reasons I don't like him are that he hasn't shown any creativity OR old school approach. It's like he's caught in the middle.

    He stubbornly played guys like Flip Murray, Nazr, Hunter way too much while he didn't develop the younger players as much as he could have. He hasn't done anything strategy-wise that surprised me in a positive way. Some of those last second play calls made me sick to my stomach. I don't like the jump shooting philosophy and feel like we are doomed to fail with poor shooting against a good playoff team.

    Given all of that, I still think he is probably in the top half of the coaches in the league.

    Deep down inside, I really want to see Laimbeer get his shot while the team still has talent.
  10. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I am a Laimbeer fan as well. I feel like he is an excellent motivator who emphasizes defense. This impression is based on an interview with Swin Cash I read a few years back.

    My problems with Flip:

    1.Doesn't seem to really understand the importance of defense. Scoring is great, look at the Wizards, Suns, and Mavericks. Combine that scoring mentality with lockdown defense, and great things happen.

    2. The playbook. I've read soooo much about the playbook, and when the Pistons are in the groove, things look great. Put a little defensive pressure on them though, and the playbook seems to be... one pass and jack up an ill advised jumper. Seriously, someone needs to introduce "the paint" to Mr. Saunders.

    3. Plays out of timeouts. See #2.

    4. Matchups. Flip doesn't seem to really recognize the advatages this team has against other teams. It seems like he is married to "the system" and never strays. Adaptability is important, and I haven't seen too much from the head coach.
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I agree with ahb. I voted top 12, but when I made a list, I had a hard time placing Flip that high.

    I mean, aside from the regular season records, there isn't a lot to hang this guy's hat on as far as career achievement.
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    pass99, I cannot fathom how you placed Johnson below Nelson, when Johnson took over basically the same team and took them to the Finals.

    For that matter, I cannot understand how you can place Flip Saunders above Johnson.

    In 11 seasons, Flip has 27 playoff wins.

    In 2 seasons, AJ has 20 playoff wins.
  13. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I struggled deciding whether to put Flip into the Top 9 or the Top 12. I like some guys like Isiah and Avery, but it's still early to see how they fit into this list. As of today, here are my top nine:

    1. Jackson
    2. Riley
    3. Popovich
    4. Sloan
    5. Nelson
    6. Karl
    7. Rivers
    8. D'Antoni
    9. Saunders
  14. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    TheLow, you think there are 12 coaches worse than Flip Saunders? I thought Flip was part of the axis of evil?
  15. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Anyone got the playoff records for all of them? That would be some interesting info. I'd look it up myself, but I'm feeling lazy today.

    wood...I wonder if those were her thoughts based on the philosophy Bill has coached her...or if she was just repeating Bill's disgruntlement with Flip's coaching style? In any case, she's right on the money.

    Avery Johnson may not have a very long track record, but he's top 6 in my book. Skiles is top 12. Know why? They coach with a passion like all good coaches do...they inspire players to motivate themselves.

    Flip seems cliche and passionless in interviews & postgames. I'd love to see a practice some time.
  16. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    detteam, did something get jumbled in your post?
  17. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    I don't think that matters too much. If it did, then how is that Bill Belichick's teams have managed to win anything? To put it mildly, Flip's record can't compare with Belichick's, but I don't think it's any more fair to criticize one of them for being passionless with the media than it is the other.
  18. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    If you show too much personality, everyone will want your time. There is an art to sounding so lifeless.
  19. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    He's awful alright. But, even he, sir, is no Don Cheney.
  20. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Townsfolk-Harming, Explorer-Lacerating Ogre of Wrath
    accurate...

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