1. Football Picks Survivor is done for 2014. Congrats to billlaimbeer from The Pistons Forum

How does Flip Saunders rank as an NBA Coach?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by BillLaimbeer, Mar 6, 2007.

?

How does Flip Saunders rank among active NBA coaches?

  1. 10 - One of the top 3 coaches in the league

    3.3%
  2. 9 - In the top 6

    23.3%
  3. 8 - In the top 9

    16.7%
  4. 7 - In the top 12

    15.0%
  5. 6 - In the top half

    21.7%
  6. 5 - In the bottom half

    11.7%
  7. 4 - In the bottom 12

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. 3 - In the bottom 9

    3.3%
  9. 2 - In the bottom 6

    1.7%
  10. 1 - One of the worst 3 coaches in the league

    3.3%
  1. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,746
    Likes Received:
    421
    That's not true. The "little general" was hesitant and inconsistent in using his starting (?) five. Substitution patterns where tried because he was trying to find chemistry and match up problems areas long known (as they are with all teams) in advance. His team was not prepared and he had no answer (like Nelson did) to counteract GS's athleticism and team weakness.

    He was out coached, just like when the pistons played them in Dallas.
     
  2. Buckeyes#1

    Buckeyes#1 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    949
    Likes Received:
    19
    NOBODY is going to give us fits this year if we stay healthy. Especially an eighth seeded team.
     
  3. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,507
    Likes Received:
    646
    Location:
    Flint
    One last thought tonight. Its not about regular season wins. Its not about rolling thru the playoffs. Its about winning it all. For that, you need to prepare your team. Right now, as long as GS does not come out of the West, I think Flip has done good enough. Just barely though. Any key injuries and we probably can't overcome that. Since I believe we have the players to overcome a key injury, or even two, no, I won't say Flip did all that good a job. He does not have the players ready to play that need to be ready to overcome those injuries. And if GS comes out of the West, we might not have good enough a team. (And again, I believe we have the players on our roster to beat GS easily enough-but not a coach who managed to get them ready if needed. And guess what, its still not too late. Right now, the Pistons have the mind set that they have to roll thru these early rounds. Sure that helps, but it does not make your team as good as it could be. Its still time to play Blalock, Amir Johnson, and the pair of Maxiell and Davis, as well as using Delfino more and exclusively at guard.)
     
  4. Buckeyes#1

    Buckeyes#1 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    949
    Likes Received:
    19

    I've been one of Flips harshest critics over the two years. In fact I was critical of him last year when we were blowing everybody away. But I have been able to set aside my biasness to see that he gets alot of credit for how we are playing. The way we are mixing up our defenses right now is absolutely awesome. Our players absolutely despised Flip's zone defense. So much so that they scoffed about it in the papers at the beginning. Now they are completely buying into his defensive system. As a result, we are embarrassing the team that swept the Heat. I repeat. We are embarrassing the team that swept the Heat. Not beating them. Embarrassing them. Flip does get some of the credit, whether we like it or not.
     
  5. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southfield, MI
    How about some credit for Porter and Cowans. They represent a major step up from a year ago.
     
  6. linwood

    linwood All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    4,460
    Likes Received:
    1,497
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Are you saying you didn't like Zierden and Lowe?
     
  7. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southfield, MI
    Well, ok they get credit for great hallway interviews.
     
  8. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    15,981
    Likes Received:
    3,928
    Location:
    Michigan
    Finally, the truth comes out. You don't like Saunders because he won't play your favorite pet players. No coach on this planet would even consider throwing Blalock into a playoff game. He didn't even excel in the NBDL, let alone play any meaningful minutes in any NBA regular season game.

    The playoffs are far from over, but most reasonable people are giving Saunders and his staff credit for having the Pistons adequately prepared for the playoff run this season.
     
  9. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2006
    Messages:
    933
    Likes Received:
    0
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,805
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    This season, more than any other for sure, I have found myself agreeing with lee.

    His point is valid, however every team in the playoffs would be disadvantaged by a key injury. I do think this team was built (not trained) to be deep. We have 3 PF/C that are not really being used, and a SF in Dupree who could easily play 8 minutes a game as a rotation player and not embarass himself too badly.

    Our problem remains the lack of a quality PG backup, which neither Flip not Lindsey are. I think once Mr. Bigshot is re-signed to a long term deal, Joe will address this need.

    I do not however feel that Will Blalock is going to provide much in the rotation. He's a charming fellow but his game is very undeveloped on defense, and on offense, his lack of a mid/long range game makes him a liability. A matchup to exploit.

    We can only dress 12 guys a game, and with Hunter and Murray dressing because they can backup the 1 and the 2, and the propensity for Sheed and Webber to pick up early fouls means we have to dress at least 1 or 2 extra big men.

    I only hope Lee will give Flip some props if we win a title because it will be a shame to hear what a failure he was winning without using all 15 men.
     
  11. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,507
    Likes Received:
    646
    Location:
    Flint
    The truth is, I want the Pistons to win it all. What is your priority besides cheerleading Flip Saunders on? Oh, and those reasonable people wrote some articles today trying to praise Flip. Man that came out weak. Citing that Flip is playing Delfino and JMAX more. (8 combined minutes last game.) If I did not know from past experience what a bunch of slappies these writers were, eager to please Pistons management, I would think they were laughing at Flip Saunders behind his back. (But again, the truth is, they are not purposely trying to make Flip look bad, they are just as usual not paying any attention to the games themselves vs. the company line they are fed after the games.)
     
  12. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2006
    Messages:
    933
    Likes Received:
    0
    Lee, you conveniently forgot to see Joe D praise of Flip.

    "Absolutely, I have no complaints with personnel issues," Dumars said. "He is probably the most accommodating, adaptive coach that I've dealt with in terms of personnel and the way he deals with people."

    The man in charge is not complaining why are you all over him?
     
  13. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,507
    Likes Received:
    646
    Location:
    Flint
    If we win it all, I don't care if Flip used just 4 guys and played them 60 minutes per game. I want the Pistons to win it all. The rest is all secondary. I continue to give Larry Brown props for his title and just falling short the following season. A lot I did not like about Brown, but he was a winner with us as he was thruout his career. Flip on the other hand has no history of being a winner. Not yet.

    As far as Blalock on defense, hey, he is quite a step up from Murray, and did pretty much just as well as Hunter, who was inconsistent this season on D. (Hunter is getting old. Sometimes he does not have it. Sometimes he eventually warms up in a game. Blalock always gave good solid D from the moment he stepped on the floor.) Last I checked, the Pistons are still saying they are hoping for Blalock to develop into a solid backup point guard for them. The only difference I have with the Pistons organization concering Blalock is that they missed the fact he is already a solid backup point, one who on play after play finds a way to give someone a good shot. (That is an actual fact, so forget the speculation about how his poor shooting might hurt his ability to play the point-again, he does do well at point. In 14 games in the rotation during the regular season and several preseason games. No need to speculate. Blalock can play.
     
  14. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Laurel, Maryland
    Lee I think we all want the Pistons to win it all.

    However, if they don`t, can you honestly say it was because Flip didn`t play Will Blalock or Amir?
     
  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,507
    Likes Received:
    646
    Location:
    Flint
    It is possible. Carlisle was let go for not playing Prince soon enough. Larry Brown absolutely could have beaten SA if he had been playing Darko any at all, cause Darko is pretty good at guarding Duncan. Last year, gee, we started the season off with Darko, a 4 year college player in JMAX, a good solid vet in Dale Davis, and yet we were found crying at the end of the season cause one player, Sheed, got an ankle injury. People talk about my pet players. That is a myth. I don't care which was done, play the vet Davis, play Darko, or paly JMAX. Or anyone else in the NBA. Whoever. You can't end up being so shallow a team that one injury derails you.

    Amir Johnson is a fine player, said to be the future of the team. And yet, to save us some money we are not playing him. Very dangerous indeed. Is Flip not playing him, or is Dumars demanding he not get played? Does not matter. Sure, we will save some money by not playing Amir. A lot of teams are going to want to bid on Amir, a restricted free agent at the end of this season, as it is. If we play him some in the playoffs to show what he can do, the bidding will start a lot higher. If we don't win it all, when we most certainly could have, can you imagine how much money that is going to lose the franchise? Sure, save a couple of million in resigning Amir, but go ahead and destroy the franchise, cause not many fans will be in the mood to listen to more excuses about why we did not win it this year.

    Blalock is a point guard. If he got to play, us fans would soon be very pleased. This one too is both the fault of Dumars and Flip. Dumars rehired his buddy, Hunter for some good dough. And Dumars picked up Murray. That is not supporting the guy you drafted too heavily, is it. And again, it does not matter. We have been using the wrong players at backup point this season. Could this lose us a series? Of course it could. We had better hope Billups never gets into extended, repeated foul trouble in a series, or gets injured in any way, cause we have no backup for him.

    By the way, to be redundant as possible, it is still not too late. If the organization, today, decided that winning it all was important enough, they could start putting Amir and Blalock into the rotation. (As well as playing Delfino at guard, playing Davis and Maxiell more.) Could it mean the Chicago series gets extended a couple of games. That is possible, but highly unlikely. Adding good quality players into the mix usually does not result in losses.
     
  16. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Laurel, Maryland
    I understand what you are saying Lee, somewhat.

    But, at this point of the season (second round of the playoffs) you can`t be serious about putiing in Blalock at PG or Amir at PF unless there are several injuries, ejections, or something bizzare happens.
     
  17. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    a cave
    And what if Amir were to play so well that he ends up putting himself beyond the price range that Joe Dumars can pay him?
    I am very high on Amir as the future "face" of this team, but I also pray noone offers him more than the MLE, because thats all Joe can give him under the CBA. I only hope that some other team's GM doesn't take a gamble on him this summer and give Amir more than Joe is even capable of giving him.

    Bottom line, the MLE is all Joe can offer Amir based on the restrictions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
     
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,805
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
  19. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    a cave
    My apologies, unfortunately, ADD hasn't let me make sense of that link either time you've posted it . I guess I am still working from the pre-revision CBA guidelines. :)

    It seems that the team making the offer is restricted in first year salary, but they can get around this by inflating the third year (?) beyond what the players original team can provide for?

    Thats probably not correct but you've caught me with that link on consecutive bad days it seems.

    Any chance you could decipher that into some sort of bottom line roscoe?
     
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,805
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Ok. It used to be that restricted FAs could be offered a contract by their original team up to the average player salary (same as the MLE). But restricted means you have the right to match any offer sheets from other teams to this free agent.

    Well if Charlotte was well under the salary cap, and wanted to offer Amir say $7 million a year to start, and all we could offer was the average player salary (around $5 million) because we are over the cap and only have exceptions to use, once that offer sheet was signed, it would be gold. Under the old CBA, there is nothing (actually, little) we could have done to reach that amount.

    This is kinda how we lost Memo. Under the new CBA, we could have matched Utah's offer and retained Memo instead of signing McDyess. It would have cost more money, but arguably Memo had more upside than Antonio.

    So in the new CBA, it basically works like this.

    Amir is a free agent. We make him a qualifying offer (a contract with a minimum raise based off his last deal), and he becomes restricted.

    Now his agent must either negotiate with the Pistons or seek offer sheets from other teams around the league. All of the teams over or very close to the cap only have the MLE to spend, and we can match that by paying him the average player salary. So that's easy to deal with.

    But should his agent decide to go for the gusto and talk to under the cap teams like Memphis, their offer has to start in the first year at the average player salary so we can match with the Early Bird Exception.

    If Amir was a one year veteran, we would have to reserve and use the MLE to match because the Early Bird would not be available.

    Basically, the Pistons will likely match or decline incoming offers and with the new provision, they have the ability to do so. The reason why they might decline is if the team tendering an offer sheet backloads the end of the deal (year 3 onwards) and the Pistons do not want to commit that much total salary to Amir going forward.

    So can we lose Amir? Yes, only if Joe does not want to commit to a very large offer sheet. The ball is in his court. No guarantees that Amir gets a massive offer, at least not with so many quality FAs this year, and frankly there are not that many teams under the cap without bigger needs than trying to steal our 20 year old project.

    I hope this makes sense. If it doesn't please let me know. I learn something new everytime I explain this.
     

Share This Page