How does Flip Saunders rank as an NBA Coach?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by BillLaimbeer, Mar 6, 2007.

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How does Flip Saunders rank among active NBA coaches?

  1. 10 - One of the top 3 coaches in the league

    3.3%
  2. 9 - In the top 6

    23.3%
  3. 8 - In the top 9

    16.7%
  4. 7 - In the top 12

    15.0%
  5. 6 - In the top half

    21.7%
  6. 5 - In the bottom half

    11.7%
  7. 4 - In the bottom 12

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. 3 - In the bottom 9

    3.3%
  9. 2 - In the bottom 6

    1.7%
  10. 1 - One of the worst 3 coaches in the league

    3.3%
  1. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Daddy Rich seemed to have a fairly strong opinion in favor of Flip.
  2. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    though this same article contains an unwittingly revealing glimpse of an attitude of Flip's that has worried many at the forum (and, a few reservations aside, i'm a flip supporter): lack of recognition of the importance of defense. If he truly believes tha the series was won by whichever team shot better, he's over-emphasizing offense and short-shrifting the impact that each defense was playing....
  3. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Technically...that's a "chicken or the egg" argument.

    The team that shoots better is the team that effectively defeats the opposing team's defense. Making this observation can be just as indicative of Flip's saying that the defense wasn't good enough to hold the opponents to a respectable shooting percentage.

    Or it can mean that Flip doesn't care about anything but offense.

    It's more or less predicated on the emotionally driven subjectivity of the listening ear. Depending on how I've felt about Flip at the time, I've heard it both ways. :)
  4. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Even though I have had a few issues with Flip in the past, all in all I agree with your statement Dunes, he coached his tail off in game six.

    He made the necessary adjustments in order to diffuse Chicago's pick and roll and reduced it to shambles where it no longer looked like a pick and roll.

    He changed guard assignments by putting Rip on Hinrich and CB on Gordon (I thought this should have been done from game 1).

    I think Flip has learned a lot since his days at minnesota, he is known for his large playbook, maybe we have only seen a fifth of it, hope to see a lot more in the Cavs series.
  5. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    as an actual phenomenon, good shooting vs. poor defense may well be a chicken egg phenomenon.

    but i think flip's language is still somewhat revealing: if he meant that the defenses weren't good enough, he didn't say that. i don't think that flip doesn't care at all about defense or that he believes defense is irrelevant cause i've also heard him talk about defense and make defensive adjustments. i just think he's more interested in offense and that it's what, primarily, he "sees" when he studies a game; it's like a basic tilt, or inclination of his, I believe (and, incidentally, not one that i have any problem with -- i'm just observing).
  6. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    And yet a perfectly good counter argument would be to point out that the vast majority of the "adjustments" talked about by Flip during the Chicago series were defensive adjustments.

    I for one, cannot bring myself to take great stock in one statement pertaining to what is still only debatedly an offensive mindset, while simultaneously overlooking the ten plus straight previous mentions of the defensive end of the floor by Flip during the same press conferences.
  7. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    Well, the Pistons had "Jordan Rules" for the playoffs for Michael Jordan.
    Flip now has a plan but will not disclose the name as of yet. Players seem excited as the Prodical Coach prepares his team for battle.
    Read about this in Yahoo Sports............................
  8. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    yeah cloud, i think your reading of this is better than mine. in view of your posts, i think what i did was jump on the feeling that the reporter was only entertaining one possible reading of Flip's statement. but, in the context of the press conference (which I didn't listen to) and the actual defensive adjustments, esp. in game 6, I think it's more reasonable to see it as you do. thanks for the exchange.
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Flip has picked up a lot of the flack leftover from the LB era with regards to playing the bench, assaulted by Darkonites and Delfinians, not to mention the Blalockers and Johnsonians.

    Last night, he left Maxie in during crunch time and it may have won us the game. Last night, we rolled 10 guys again. 10 guys and there was no garbage time or big lead to coast on.

    This is the Flip I thought we were getting from Minnesota. The guy who will try different things from his bench to see what works. Delfino didn't work, and neither did McDyess. So we went with Maxiell.

    Excellent move.

    And boy does JMax look like he's going to be a keeper in this league. All of the folks who thought his lack of size, or finesse or rebounding would keep him down, well he's proving them wrong. He's got the ferocity of Darvin Ham, the character of Elden Campbell and the range of Uncle Cliffy.
  10. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    Amen Amen I say to you !!!!!!!!!
  11. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I'm not sure about the range thing, but I agree with the rest. JMax should be a solid option for 20-25 mins off the bench. I don't know if he could become a starter on this team.
  12. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

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    Uhh, OK then. :stooges:


    He can give you 80-90% of what Ben did as far as rebounding and help D, and he has a decent J, and has the potential to be a decent FT shooter (wasn't he a near 80% FT shooter @ Cinci?)

    Unlike Ben he isn't quite as Fluid, but is a way better finisher and seems to have real good hands.

    The Ben Wallace/Charles Barkely/Charles Oakley/sCorliss Williamson mixture I've heard before was a decent one.
  13. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    You think Maxie can average 10-12 boards and 2-3 blocks a game? If so, he'd be a walking double-double. He hasn't been great on the boards and I believe that Pistons' coaching staff is working on that with him. And the free throws - I'm not sure what's wrong with the guy. Maybe he should try to shoot jump shots from the line, I dunno. But if he can't fix it he won't be a starter.
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Maxiell's free throws got better in that stretch of games toward the end of the season where he played a bunch.

    It's tough to have FT touch when you play infrequently and play with bursts of energy. His form is a little weird, but it seems like he has potential to improve.
  15. adpreston1988

    adpreston1988 First Round Draft Pick

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    I definitely see Jason Maxiell as being the next "big nasty" like Corliss Williamson. I don't see him being a starter in this league, but being a great 6th man off the bench like big nasty was can contribute just as much to a team winning a championship.

    And btw isn't this thread supposed to be about Flip Saunders? Why did the subject begin to revolve around Jason Maxiell?
  16. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I think it started with discussion on bench use by Flip.

    :) :) :)
  17. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

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    Player 48-Minute Production by Position
    [SIZE=-1]Position[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]FGA[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]eFG%[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]FTA[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]iFG[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Reb[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Ast[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]T/O[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Blk[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]PF[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Pts[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]PER*[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=-1]PF[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] 13.2 [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]0.562 [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] 7.5 [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] 59% [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] 9.9 [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] 0.5 [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] 2.8 [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] 2.8 [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] 6.2 [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] 19.1 [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]18.2 [/SIZE]

    Well, it looks like with around 35 to 40 mins a game 15 points 8 boards and 2 blocks wouldn't be too unrealistic.


    And I was a bit off but he did shoot 68% as a Junior from the stripe and 65% as a Senior.
  18. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    These are the numbers close to what Sheed gives us during the season.
  19. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He's doesn't convince me.

    "No. 1, my dad once told me if you don't have a team and you're a coach, you're not coaching. So I made a decision that I wanted to get back in." - does that make any sense? How obvious was his Dad's truism? How long was he out of coaching?

    "As a coach, you want to have an opportunity to have success, and if you don't have success, you live with it." What? You get fired is what you get.

    "At times, people show their ignorance by not understanding things." That would be the definition of ignorance. People show their blindness by not seeing things.

    "But I don't think we lost last year to Miami because we were tired. At that time, Miami was a better team." The same Miami team that got swept in the first round this year? Better team my a%$. Sounds like he lived with it.

    "Q . Have you been accepted here by the fans?
    A . I really don't know because I really don't deal a lot with people to know where it's at." Whatever dude. You know where it's at.

    And I'll add this quote from his other Det News article today.
    "We have to take (Cleveland's) aggressiveness and try to make it a weakness."
    Why don't we make their high rebounding numbers a weakness while we're at it.

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