Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by TheeTFD, Feb 11, 2011.
Over 50% of us were right - he has made it at least until 2014
Yes, the correct answer is "He's Golden."
Winners of this poll: basketbills, max, G-man, Warthog, TaShawn, MotownPride, Stereodave, BillLaimbeer, GIE, Maverick, coynejeremy, 1989, far north, whatever_gong82, Walter, Brap
The other option has not expired yet - until the end of 2014.
Do you honestly think Dumars will ever get fired?
With the rise of the "Stat Geek" takeover of the NBA front office (John Hammond, the recent hires at PHX, Philly, Morey, etc.) The days of the EX-player as the head decision maker may be over.
How are all those teams doing?
Memphis is in the WC finals most likely. Houston revamped their team into a player and quality team. Philly and PHX just hired these guys. Hammond fleeced Toronto by getting arguably their best big guy in Ed Davis, PG in Calderon for Rudy Gay. Not a bad first big move. Houston fleeced OKC to get Harden for peanuts.
Houston looked like they were on crack but its worked out pretty good.
If he keeps making knucklehead moves yes. For now Gores is happy how Dumars set things up with the cap space and decent picks he has been making. We will see what he does this summer. He can't afford anymore BG/CV type signings.
You mean John Hollinger then? Yeah Memphis has done well. HOU is on the up and up. PHX looks terrible. But Memphis was already built to contend. They only got rid of Rudy Gay for salary reasons. Hollingers changes were limited, and arguably they haven't played much better for them, a ~5% in win%.
Stats and knowledge need to go hand in hand.
I might take Gilbert Arenas over Joe.
I'm saddened that JD is still here. I really thought that Tom Gores wouldn't go into the ice cream business.
Yep I meant Hollinger. But salary trades are a big part of todays NBA and deciding who to let go and whom to keep is crucial. Joe D did a salary dumped and acquired AI. Hollinger gets Tay and Daye without upsetting the core. Houston had a nice plan for their rebuild. Joe D shot from the hip acquiring AI, re-upping RIP, signing BG and CV. Two different backgrounds (players vs. trained exec) two different results. Yet, I still must give Joe credit for the 4 years of dominance we had from 2003-07.
Here's a more serious question. What happened to Joe D? Was the start of his tenure ALL luck (Rip > Stackhouse, Billups growing, Sheed / McDyess falling into his lap, Big Ben becoming the 4 x DPOY) or is this last part of his tenure more the outlier? His absurd desire for combo guards reeks of him trying to emulate his own ID as a player.
I think that being a GM in a sense, has a large 'luck' element. Perhaps a better description would be as a random variable in an equation. You never know whether you are getting Mike Conley or Michael Beasley. You never know when Derek Fisher is going to hit a fader with .4 on the clock.
In that sense you can't measure his performance in a convential manner. It's not as simple as running regression on the win record under his reign, and going 'hey, the last two years are >2σ from the mean, therefore we can label it an outlier'. Maybe the start was luck, maybe he really did see Billup's intangibles, BenW's potential, Sheed's love of being part of a team. And maybe the last few years were the downside to that initial luck. Or maybe we talk about his drafting. Does the conversation start with Darko? Or does it start with Monroe?
How you approach the evaluation is just as important as the data itself. Personally, I'm not too upset with JD. I think he drafts really well. I think he really does care about player mentality. I'm thankful for our run of dominance. As for the combo guard discussion, well, maybe it is that he liked the player that he was. Maybe combo guards are great to have on the team. I think that this is more of a coaching problem than anything else.
My opinion is that while a lot of it was luck, Dumars faced an exponentionally more difficult problem 're-loading' the GTW team. It wasn't 3 guys with some interchangeable spare parts, the GTW core was 5 guys working together. You could see how difficult it was to tack on players to that chemistry.
He is not without fault - especially with the tweener fixation. But a lot of why people want him gone is because he couldn't sustain success.
As far as Gores is concerned, at this pivotal juncture, is anyone else as prepared as Dumars to make a move. He has the groundwork with other GM's laid down. He should have his homework done. If I were Gores, I would have sat down with Dumars and asked, what is your plan? If it looked like he didn't have his research done or if he didn't have a firm grasp on the NBA landscape this summer, I can him. I assume they've gone through this. I wouldn't want to give the guy one more chance and find out he shot from the hip just like in '09 or something.
I'd imagine that this is his last season if we don't make the playoffs.
Joe certainly failed at adding talent to the pre-buffoonery era team, but a lot of the criticism levied at Joe should be directed at the Pistons ownership.
Mr. D would not pay the luxury tax and that caused the team to roll with a bench made up of Joe's half-cocked projects. Danny Ainge can be aggressive making roster moves because his ownership will support it.
Mr. D also couldn't get along with LB which was a huge blow and that made it difficult to add guys to the team.
When you look at it from Tom Gores' perspective, Joe has done an excellent job since Gores bought the team.
...cleared $25 mil in cap space.
I give him a B+.
Drafted Knight... meh... I would love to have Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard and even Iman Shumpert. All of them were picked later
Many on this forum are ready to give up on BK7. His NBA career has started better than that of Chauncey Billups.
at age 20: 12.8 points, 3.8 ast, 3.2 reb, 42% FG, 1.6 3pt @ 38%
at age 21: 13.3 points, 4.4 ast, 3.3 reb, 41% FG, 1.6 3pt @ 37%
at age 20: still in college
at age 21: 11.2 points, 3.9 ast, 2.9 reb, 37% FG, 1.3 3pt @ 33%
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