Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by buddahfan, Aug 21, 2006.
Proof please. You normally make pretty good points, but come on..this is blatant speculation.
Ben was Judas while Darko was Ghandi?... sorry not buying it.
I remember his famous sit down strike where he sat on the bench for 3 years and refused to quit smoking until the coach acknowledged his greatness. Didn't some guy named "Ben" something play his role?
i agree it's blatant speculation but it's a conspiracy theory that makes plenty of sense. does joe dropping ben wallace + darko + arroyo for nazr and flip murray sound like it was the plan the whole time??? i'm sorry i'm not buying the money angle. joe knew at the time of the trade that if ben bolted in free agency darko would be better than any other free agent center available and better than any center we could trade for without losing a key part of our core. i think he would have kept darko around as insurance if ben didn't give joe his word. joe didn't just trade darko straight up he traded arroyo too. that's a very high price for maybe signing ben wallace. i think joe was told it's a sure thing before he pulled the trigger on that crap trade. would we have paid wade, bosh or melo the money they would have demanded?? would lb have even played them?? would you feel bad about watching them blossom once they are finally given a chance on another team??? next year you'll watch and your response will be i feel bad about not playing darko instead of feeling bad about drafting him. he was a very good draft pick especially for our needs at the time.
Joe Dumars: Look Otis, I need you to take Darko off my hands for a first round pick. Any first round pick. Otis Smith: Ok, but you have to throw in Carlos Arroyo. He will be a big hit with the latin community in Orlando. Joe Dumars: Sure, Arroyo, Delfino, Pepe Sanchez, you name it. Otis Smith: Great doing business with you Joe. Is there anything you want in return? Joe Dumars: Well, I have had my eyes on Kelvin Cato for a while. He's like a young Uncle Cliffy. Otis Smith: You drive a hard bargain Joe. No wonder you were the Executive of the Year. Joe Dumars: Tell that to my boss...
It has been apparent to me just from watching games, and I have mentioned it several times, that Ben's attitude toward Darko changed and I believe that it was because he could see Darko becoming a threat to Ben's being able to get a max contract. I have also mentioned that in another year or so that Ben would make a good backup to head the second unit with DMC starting. Might even extend his career, but not at the max pay. So, it does not seem too far out of the realm of possibility that bball jay is pretty close to the facts of the case. It would not surprise me. Sheed and Chauncey and Taysh were up and shouting when the DMC and the boys did good, and Ben was with them, until Darko came back from the Euros last year rarin' to go. I saw that sneer so often while the others were cheering. Admittedly it is sometimes difficult to tell exactly what is in someone's mind from their expression, but . . . sometimes you can just tell. OK, so it's only an opinion, but that's what these places are for.
I swore that I wasn't going to get sucked into another Darko thread. Promised myself I wouldn't even look... Sure glad I did. That Mahatma Darko picture has me crying! Nice job, Roscoe!
Linwood, your extraordinary willpower will serve as an inspiration to us all.
Dumars: So the Darko deal is done then... ahh good. That's one less thing to worry about. (hangs up phone) Dumars: Thanks for the smoke Cliff, I needed that.
bball, Given the Pistons track record these last few years, no we probably would not have paid a Wade or Anthony or Bosh. I think that going the economy route may start to show its limitations. I do think that Anthony and Wade would have played, yes. Not as sure about Bosh. Losing Darko and not signing Ben does not make sense even though I am not sold on Darko. But letting Okur go and letting James go were done to save money. That didn't make sense either.
Or perhaps you are completely wrong with this assumption and Ben wanted "his perceived value" without any preference as to how it happened. Mr. D could have taken the salary cap penalty, right? The Pistons could have perhaps done another move to free up money for Ben if they were "so" excited about Darko, right? I don't think there is a consipiracy here. Everything I've read and heard from Joe seems to support that he didn't think Darko was a good fit in the organization. Although less dramatic and sensational, the lack of faith that Darko would earn playing time with this current group seemed to be the real driving factor. Its amazing how Ben can be the model player for the Pistons all these years including the survival of the Teal era with undeniable loyalty and the moment he is discontent about the direction of the team, he has become this evil mastermind who thinks of personal gain at the expense of everyone around him. Sorry don't see it. Ben isn't the one with the loyalty issue. He still praises Detroit. The loyalty issue is with any fan who turned on him because he took a ridiculousy better offer. Sorry, that decision was a no brainer wether you're a fan of Ben or not. Play in a system that devalues your contribution for less money versus a system that rewards your contribution and pays much more? Umm..no Joe Dumars and Mr. D. Excuse me, or as Whitney Houston would say, "Hellllllllllllllllllll to the Nawlllllllll!". Sorry, I just fail to see the mystery here. I find the PF.com murder mystery to be much more compelling. And lazyberbs, you are absolutely right. This place definitely welcomes opinions. Hell, we exist because of them. My point was simply that saying, "Ben told Joe he would sign if Darko is gone" is treated as fact in bballj's arguement when in reality it is truely speculative. It just shows an obvious bias against Ben on bballj's part. (which is completely obvious anyway! )
BBallJ you can't parse sentences like that and remain credable. You sound as bad as George Bush. ...We can see now, JD's teams are NBA experience driven. It's a more accurate judge of the talent. And frankly if someone had eyes on my job just as I was about to get paid, I'd block his you know what too! P.S. how long did JD think he could keep Darko on the bench anyway?
can we leave those kinda comments out too? it's bad enough bballjay says things as fact until you call him out and make him retract and say it's speculation.
Ben put hot sauce in Darko's jock... and superglue on his shorts... it's a known fact in my mind... it's the only logical explaination why he was so fidgety but never actually got up.
motown pride- excellent post. here ye, here ye.
exactly. joe didn't think darko would earn playing time with mcdyess, ben and sheed in front of him. which to me supports the fact that joe was counting on ben being here. if joe had an inkling that ben was going to leave he would definitely have chose darko over nazr. joe pulled the trigger on a trade that in so many ways was a bad move unless you resign ben which leads me to believe that joe had something verbal from ben. as the pistons success grew so did ben's ego. if ben was so loyal to the organization he would be happy to sit on the bench after darko. he would have been happy to play for less to contend for championships. he would go into the game when told to. he would be happy to sit on the bench cause other teams are purposely fouling him. ben couldn't handle his role being reduced and that's it. i turned on ben a long time ago. his game is on the decline and his ego is on the incline. anything we say is just opinion. i figure it's assumed that it's opinion when a poster says something unless they have a link or sound bite. i have bias against ben and other posters have bias against darko. some of you think ben is this face of the franchise and he carried us to championships and can do no wrong.
the superglue is probably the reason ben couldn't hit free throws either. it's all starting to make sense now.
no. joe d's coaches are experience driven. joe has put together a lot of nice young talent on these pistons teams and his coaches haven't used them. this alienated the young players and they leave and we get older and older. i say if a younger player can contribute let him play don't just play the more experienced player. yeah. right delk is more experienced than arroyo but i would have loved to have a backup pg during the playoffs. dale davis is more experienced than darko but i know who i'd pick for my team. how long did you think joe d could keep ben on the court bricking free throws like that? joe d has seen enough of these young players just rotting on the bench that's why he made the call for delfino to get more playing time.
bball jay is on fire! Sometimes, he almost has me converted to some of his views.
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