idling pistons

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by copper, Nov 30, 2010.

  1. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

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  2. drmcgraw2000

    drmcgraw2000 First Round Draft Pick

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    What do you think the Pistons should do?
    I have came up with the following 3 categories that I would put our players into. With that said, I think we are stuck with Rip unless we are willing to take something worthless in return (maybe it is a case of addition by subtraction).
    Very Tradable Assets
    1. Rodney Stuckey
    2. JJ
    3. Austin Daye
    4. Greg Monroe
    5. Tay Prince
    6. 2011 or 2012 1st round draft pick
    Tradable Assets
    1. Ben Gordon
    2. Ben Wallace
    3. CV
    4. Will Bynum
    5. Chris Wilcox
    6. D Summers
    7. T White
    8. T Mac
    Not Very Tradable Assets
    1. Rip Hamilton
    2. Maxiel


    Most Piston fans would probably agree that we are in desperate need of a center and true point guard. With that said, I would suggest that we NOT trade JJ, Daye, Monroe, Gordon, and Bynum. Like I said above, I think we are stuck with Rip.. If we end up in the lottery and ball bounces are way (and he declares) I would like the Pistons to draft Kyle Irving (think Chris Paul) out of Duke, there really isn’t a center that is worthy of a top 7 pick. That would make Stuckey expendable (since we will more than likely have both Rip and BG at shooting guard). Of course, trading Stuckey couldn’t go down until after the draft (unless we could trade him for a true point guard). Maybe we trade Stuckey for an up and coming big. Although it is a HUGE gamble, I wouldn’t mind allowing Kander to work his magic and trade for Oden. Maybe CV or Prince for Oden. I also wouldn’t mind if, instead, we traded for Cousins. He seems to have fallen out of favor with the Kings.
    I have tried time and time again to think of trades the Pistons could make that would work for both teams, and I am having a very difficult time doing so. I think the above suggestions are my best options.
     
  3. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    That's why a GM's job is quite hard. However, KGREG had posted a myriad of great trades that would help the Pistons.
     
  4. jayborne

    jayborne Bench Warmer

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    Pretty sure Oden was the #2 (or something like that) center in the league in terms of efficiency when healthy last year. It'd be a worthy risk, though it's legit to wonder if his body will ever hold up.
     
  5. drmcgraw2000

    drmcgraw2000 First Round Draft Pick

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    Walter, I wasn't very clear on how I prioritized my categories. With the looming the lock out being a priority in the minds of GM, I put premium on cost (or in Tay's case expiring contract), then youth, then skill. Hence the reason Monroe and JJ made the top category. White and Summers are low cost, low risk players and will potentially be a filler in a trade. I am certainly not suggesting we trade a 2011 or 12 pick, but if the right trade was offered up it would make perfect sense to trade it.

    As for Oden and/or Cousins we are in desperate need of a center. Look around the NBA, there are not many centers that are or potentially available. I chose Oden because of the risk associated to him and the high probability that Portland would trade him. As for Cousins, I choose him because if the rumors are true (he was kicked out of practice) that Sac might be willing to trade him. In either case CV could be used as trade bait. Additionally, look at NBADRAFT.NET and you will see the next 2 years are pretty scarce when it comes to centers you would expect to see drafted in the top 7 picks.

    I have read a lot of great trades from many of the posters throughout the years on this site, but the fact is the trade has to make sense for both teams. A lot of posters (and I am not accusing anybody) offer up trades that only benefit the Pistons and are not likely ever going to happen.

    Which brings me full circle. We need a center and a true point guard, list out all of the available ones (or perceived to be available) next to the their current team and their current team's needs. With that said the counterparty for a trade dwindles. We are loaded at the 2 and 3, the 2 positions that are typically the easiest to draft/find in FA.

    Joe Dumars needs to get very creative, or the Pistons are going to be stuck on average for a LONG time. If they are going to be average they may as well suck, so we can increase our chances of landing a top 3 pick (in hopes the individual drafted changes the direction).

    Of course, everything in this post and original post is my opinion. Just out of curiosity how would you categorize our players in regards to the premium they would receive in a trade? Who do you think potential counterparties are in a trade and what assets do you think they would be willing to give up and for who?
     
  6. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Have to agree with the article. Joe needs to stop trying to get the most out of aging mismatched roster and start looking towards the future. He needs to come up with a plan for the future other than play our vets, let the kids watch, and hope we can sign some more vets.

    At best he wins some extra games and sacrifices a lottery pick. At worst, he has more young guys demanding trades. Time to admit the party is over and play Daye and Monroe heavy minutes win or lose.

    I think Minny is proving that if you give guys a chance, let them play through their growing pains, you might get some good results.
     
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I saw the stat they posted during the game tonight that Detroit has more players on the roster that they originally drafted than any other team in the league. It said 7, but I count 8 guys that we drafted: Stuckey, Prince, Maxiell, Monroe, White, Daye, Summers, and Jerebko. Maybe I'm forgetting that one of our draft picks was one of those quick trades where another team technically drafted the player?

    Also consider that we nabbed Will Bynum out of obscurity after he had left the league.

    The Pistons originally acquired through trade: Ben Wallace, Rip Hamilton

    The Pistons acquired cold through FA: Gordon, Villanueva, McGrady, Wilcox

    So, in summary:
    8 drafted
    4 from FA
    2 from trades
    1 signed from outside the league


    2 from trades seems unusually low. We basically have a team that is composed almost entirely of guys that Joe Dumars actively sought out, either through draft or FA signing.

    And the 2 trades were made eons ago. Rip from the Wiz in 2002/03 and Ben for Grant Hill about the same time.

    Is Joe the most reluctant trader of all GM's? Maybe he's overvaluing his assets a little too much?
     
  8. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Idling Backward: Detroit Pistons Need To Make a Change | Bleacher Report
    Sorry but in case the original link got buried, I had quote out the most important part of the article because it appears that someone on this forum wrote it...was it Lee, KGREG, Walter or Molighy? I wish I could take credit for it because this is just how I feel...

     
  9. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Fair enough. I do agree with you that we desparately need a PG and a C. Cousins is really a PF in my opinion, but he and Monroe would make a very decent and young front court. Cousins is a low-post banger with a bad attitude and Monroe is a finesse high post player with good passing skills. They both have size to boot.

    To be honest, the most creative thing we can do is to trade away both Rip AND Gordon to land a 1st grade point guard that can hit the 3 reliably. Stuckey can become our starting SG. Just for argument's sake, let's say we land Devin Harris, an above average PG in this league. Imagine a young lineup of Harris-Stuckey-Daye-Cousins-Monroe, with JJ, CV, blah blah off the bench.

    I think our most tradeable assets are Prince and Stuckey. The tradeable easy enough assets would be Daye, Monroe, Gordon, CV and Wilcox. We'd have to offer people lifetime foot massages for anyone to pick up Rip.

    As for the second part of your question, who potential trade partners would be, that really is the billion dollar question and I really don't have a good answer. I think Utah can be a good trade partner as they really don't have a top tier SG. I can see a three team trade where Utah picks up Tay and Gordon from us, sends Kirilenko's contract to someone else and we get something we really need from that third team. Who that 3rd team is? Well, whoknows? Another potential trade partner would be Memphis who's shopping Randolph. They might bite on Tay+Maxiell for Randolph as they could use a good SF to back up Gay.
     
  10. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    First things first, Stuckey is not a tradeable asset, he's about to be a restricted free-agent going into a CBA summer. There are trades to be made, Atlanta, Philly, Clev, Wash and Sacramento are all willing to dance.

    We should be targeting Jason Thompson (Sac), Maurice Speights (Phil) and as crazy as it sounds...........Gilbert Arenas, Gilbert is the closest we are going to get to a good PG and I like the idea of pairing him up with Ben Gordon. We need somebody on this team to avg 20ppg, not a bunch of guys avg'ing 12-15ppg who get hot and score 25, Gilbert is that guy. Stuckey is a 16 & 5 PG, not bad, not great either, Gilbert is 22&7, BIG DIFFERENCE. Sometimes ya just gotta take a chance on something crazy. These are easy trades to make but somebody in the Org needs to step up and grow a pair. We're almost 1/4 of our way through the season and we're a .333 team on track to win 27 games AGAIN!!! Yet Joe Du(nothing) sits in silence, has anyone noticed that the camera doesn't even show Joe anymore during the games? I have no clue if he's even there anymore, nobody has seen him........... what's up with that?
     
  11. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    Who is Joe Dumars? He is supposed to be Turkish. Some say his father was German. Nobody believed he was real. Nobody ever saw him or knew anybody that ever worked directly for him, but to hear Kobayashi tell it, anybody could have worked for Dumars. You never knew. That was his power. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. And like that, poof. He's gone.
     
  12. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I blame this all on our departed owner.... leaving this mess to his wife. Joe has to be handcuffed right now, this was suppose to have been done a month ago...
     
  13. pgrnpacer

    pgrnpacer First Round Draft Pick

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    Maybe Ilitch is holding out for Karen to pull the trigger on the Dumars firing. He doesn't want to be the bad guy so he has Karen fire dumars just before he takes ownership of the team.

    How many games does it take to establish a pattern in the nba? It would seem as though 6-12 would be enough now that Q and Dumars would get together and conclude that Daye and Monroe needs to start and that the entire starting lineup needs to be scrapped for new ideas. This isn't just going to "turn itself around" anymore and Ben Gordon and Daye need to start over the stuck up vets.
     
  14. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If you look at Ben Gordon over the last two weeks (7 games played) he's only averaged 7.6 shot attempts per game. Is there any question that BG is the most talented shooter on the team? I dont believe so. 25 mpg over that stretch, 7.6 shot attempts. That is not right.
     
  15. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I think it's a way better idea to bring in Gilbert Arenas than DeMarcus Cousins (just pretending for a moment that it's even possible).
     
  16. drmcgraw2000

    drmcgraw2000 First Round Draft Pick

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    I find it interesting that each of us are Piston fans, and each of us have very different opinions on who we should try to trade for.

    For example, I absolutely despise Gilbert Arenas and really think that Cousins will be a high quality NBA player (assuming he has the right coach) and is the type of player that could help bring an identity to the Pistons. I don't know about you guys, but it seems like none of the current players on the roster even care, they seem to completely lack emotion. To me, Cousins seems to have emotions that rivals Rasheed and could potentially bring a swagger to the team that has been missing for some time. Of course, there is always the chance that he brings in a terrible attitude that stymies the growth of the team. It is a risk I would be willing to take.

    I agree with all the posters that believe Daye and Monroe need to be on the floor and play through their mistakes. I don't know if Monroe needs to start, but he needs high quality minutes to learn the game. As for Daye, he really needs to get minutes at the 3. Playing him out of position at the 4 does nothing for the team or for him. With that said, it is time to find a new home for Prince. There are several teams that could use him to get over the hump, and he deserves another run at the title. The same is true for Rip, but his contract seems unmovable.

    I do disagree with poster(s) that think Stuckey is non trade-able because of the looming lockout and unknowns related to the future salary structure. Although none of us know what the end result will be, I think it is a safe bet that the owners will hold out until the salary structure is brought down and heavily skewed in their favor. With that said, I would assume that whatever contract Stuckey gets, it will be a lot less then what it would have been had he been a free agent in a previous year. So it is not only possible, but likely Stuckey's new contract could be a good deal for the team that signs him compared to contracts signed prior to FA 2011.

    I still hold out hope that we get a good pick in the 2011 draft and somehow come away with Kyle Irving (assuming he comes out). It will give us a point guard that we have been missing since Billups was traded, but a style that is more inline with Chris Paul.
     
  17. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    I'll take D-Cuz over Gilbert for the following reasons:
    1. Cousins will mature with age. Gilbert will not.
    2. Cousins will get better. Gilbert will get worse.
    3. Centers are hard to find. Combo guards are not.
    4. Cuz makes us younger. Arenas does not.
    5. I'd rather have a young immature big that will develop than an old immature guard that won't develop.

    Arenas is an amazing player today.
    D-Cuz will be an amazing player tomorrow.
     
  18. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I don't dislike Cousins, and I think he's going to be good. But the fact that rumors are already going around that Sacramento might trade him 1/4th of the way into his rookie year seems like a major red flag to me. Of course, those might just be idle rumors. For what it's worth, I liked him enough to pick him for my fantasy team. :pound:
     
  19. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    With Arenas combination of injury history and contract I'm not sure I'd want him on the roster even if he was a top 5 player in the league. He is a great player but to big of a risk and that's not even considering he might start pulling guns in the locker room. If they take on Rip + Max and give us their no 1 during every year left on his contract maybe?
     
  20. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    They are just talking about trading Cousins to raise the stock of their OTHER bigs...If they talk about trading Cousins, and leave Thompson and Landry out of the conversation, people will assume that Sac feels they are more valuable, essentially raising their trade value. They arent going to trade Cousins, but they will trade one of those bigs before the deadline.
     

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