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If Brown Was Such A Great Coach

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by buddahfan, Aug 2, 2007.

  1. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Don't include Ginobili as a bench player. He comes off the bench, but he is the Spurs second best player.

    Pistons bench: Hunter, Flip M., Delfino, Dice, J Max

    Spurs bench: Vaughn, Finley, Brent Barry, Horry, Oberto

    Hunter=Vaughn
    Finley>Flip
    Barry>Delfino
    Dice=Horry
    J Max>Oberto

    It's not that big of a difference. Their bench is not superior to the Pistons talent wise, but they are superior in the way they are utilized.
     
  2. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Lets not include Dyess as coming off the bench, because the only reason he doesn't start is because he doesn't want to.

    :hoops:
     
  3. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    i don't buy that... they use there bench a ton better then we do. but they use all season to make sure there bench is ready to play in the playoffs, we sadly play as many mins for our starters as we can squeeze out of them so there burned out.
     
  4. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I agree. The big difference is that Spurs manage to find the players that fit the system and Pop puts them in the position to succeed. Also, not having to play all the minutes during the regular season, the starters play more minutes in the playoffs reducing the use of the bench.
     
  5. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    If Dice started than Sheed would come off the bench...making our bench better.
     
  6. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    :gun1::gun1::gun1::pound:
     
  7. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Fine than Ginobili goes back on the bench.

    You seem to want your cake and to eat it too which I can understand but.

    The reason that Pop did a better job than Flip managing the bench was because he had Ginobili on the bench.

    So in this situation you can't compare what doesn't exist in reality unless you are comparing fantasy to reality. Which I seems a like a nice trick if you can get away with it.

    :hoops:
     
  8. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    To draw the parallels, the Pistons would have to start someone like Flip Murray and then bring Rip off the bench to match what Spurs are doing.
     
  9. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Mate, you could walk into a sports bar in Philadelphia, Memphis or any other city and get the same reaction. Every team has it's die-hards who will stick up for their team. I'm not sure what this proves about how good the Cavs actually are.
     
  10. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    You are making the same mistake as Himat.

    That is not the reality.

    This is not about making fair comparisons.

    It is about reality.

    The reality is that Ginobili comes off the bench most of the time. That is a coaches decision. Compare realities not fantasy with reality.

    :hoops:
     
  11. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    So the proper arguement to make is that the Pistons starting 5 was superior evening out the discrepancy on the bench.

    In the end, there was no sizeable advantage as far as rosters are concerned.

    BTW, comparing Flip to Larry Brown or Pop as it pertains to coaching skill is borderline disrespectful. You are comparing Hall of Fame calibur with mediocrity. Seems like a useless exercise. I think I'll side with the coaches, players, sports writers and most fans that Brown and Pop are a part of an elite class of coaches in the history of the game.

    Flip has done nothing to even be mentioned in the same stratosphere as those two.

    The job he did with the Pistons during the post season has been very underwhelming the past two years. He is deservant of all criticism.

    We pegged him right from the beginning. Good regular season coach, horrific playoff coach. The only question is what is taking Joe so long to fire this dude?
     
  12. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    But Pop made that smart move to put Ginobili on the bench to make the bench good.

    Flip does not change anything. He does not adjust. He will never switch a player around to make the team more productive.

    When I said don't include Ginobili I said that because he is the Spurs second best player he is not really a bench player. Dice is the 5th or 6th best man depending on a person's opinion on C Webb, so Dice is a bench player.
     
  13. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    It's not even about the bench. It's about the entire team.

    Chauncey > or = Tony Parker
    Rip > Finley
    Tayshaun = Bowen
    Tim Duncan > Sheed
    C Webb> Elson
    Dice=Horry
    J Max > or = Oberto
    Barry > Delfino
    Lindsey = Vaughn
    Ginobili >> Flip
    LB > or = Pop
    Seems pretty close to me. Actually it is very close, but I think I was rating those guys based on the way LB would use them. Here is what happens to the ratings when Flip is coaching.

    Tony Parker > or = Chauncey
    Rip > Finley
    Tayshaun = Bowen
    Tim Duncan > Sheed
    C Webb = Elson
    Dice = Horry
    J Max = Oberto
    Barry > Delfino
    Lindsey = Vaughn
    Ginobili >> Flip
    Pop >> Flip

    There is the reality
     
  14. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Pop is a great playoff coach. Flip is a mediocre playoff coach at best. His lifetime playoff win percentage around 40% is saying just that. At the same time, it just puts perspective on the players who say that it's not coaching and they can do it by themselves.
     

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