If Joe-D had half a brain, we'd win the NBA title THIS season

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by blueadams, Dec 26, 2013.

  1. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    *
    HIS ? team is sub .500 ? And how much improvement can we expect in 10 more games or 30 more.
  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I don't mind Jennings, but I'd prefer to reverse the trade.

    After shaking off the rust of an injury, here is Knight's last 15 games vs Jennings on the season (per 36):

    Stat: BK / BJ
    Pts: 19.4/ 17.2
    Reb: 6.1/ 3.3
    Ast: 5.4/ 8.0
    Tov: 2.6/ 3.1
    Stl: 1.1/ 1.5
    efg: .463/ .457

    Knight plays better defense IMO. Give us Middleton back to shore up our weak spot at SF and it's a no brainer.


    Did we get the best player in the trade? It appears to be debatable. Jennings is flashier. Personally, I don't view him as a cog in a defense-first playoff machine. With Knight, I actually could imagine him in that role after another few years of fermentation.
  3. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    It's hard to look at Knight's numbers and get a context for how he's playing, but his playing style does seem easier to mesh with the team.
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Keep in mind that knight is pging for a team that jennings said had nobody to pass to.
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  5. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    Didn't Knight say the same about Detroit?
  6. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Still this is unusual, can you remember when the Pistons were SF and PF driven ? It's always been PG and SG half court offence with good pieces else where.
    I like it. We haven't had serious manhood at SF and PF since I can remember. It's not dominating yet but I want to see where it goes.
    *
    Sheed and Tay never owned the ball. Great games but never the consistent driver.
    yes I know Tay played point a few times.
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Leading scorers per minute are 1) stuckey, 2) jennings, and 3) bynum.

    The sf and pf are trying hard, but the guards still are dominating the ball.

    It is nice to see dedicated paint presence though. We lead the league still I think.
  8. max

    max All-Star

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    Whats the Bucks record.
  9. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    6-24 uumm I kinda think I know where you're going with that. But still we falter.
  10. max

    max All-Star

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    Who cares about Knight , he is doing about the same over there as he did here.

    What is worth watching is the Trey Burke/Jennings comparion since thats who we could have drafted to play PG for us. Is Burke going to be better than Jennings is the question.
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    It's interesting to reflect on recent transactions. Most fans do it.

    We traded a guy that is averaging 17.5 and a guy who is averaging 15.1 per 36 for a guy who is averaging 17.3

    Here is how the salaries play out:

    Player: 2014/ 2015/ 2016
    BK: $2.95/ $3.75/ $5.05
    KM: $0.79/ $0.92/ $1.18

    BJ: $7.66/ $8.00/ $8.34

    * qualifying offers, etc in there


    Would we be better off next year with Knight, Middleton, and $3.4M in extra spending power or Brandon Jennings?
  12. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    It's also hard to gauge the numbers and impact a player would have if they were playing on a contending team. What kind of numbers would Afflalo put up for Miami or Indiana, for example? It's easier to put up big numbers for a crappy, losing team.
    S.J. likes this.
  13. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Starter 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    A related question is why the heck JoeD drafted Caldwell-Pope? Even if he was after Jennings, I'd rather have Burke as a backup than Caldwell-Pope as [insert random useless thing here]
  14. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Tell that to the Pistons!!!
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    BJ went from 17.4 points per 36 last year on .399 shooting to 17.3 this year on .397 shooting. But I guess there really isn't too much difference in those two environments unfortunately.
  16. S.J.

    S.J. Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I'm agree with that, Bill.

    Also, Knight is averaging 15 shots in the last 14-15 games. He averaged 11.7 in his last season with the Pistons.

    I like Knight, really, but I'm very pleased with Jennings.

    That's unfair TaS, let me tell you why.

    Jennings also went from 6.5 assist to 8.1 assists.. Yes, you may say that not a big deal, but let me remind you that he is doing that in one of the worst teams in the 3 point shooting category.
    I'm not saying that great passers are also because of the great shooters they have around them, But is easy if you pass the ball to good shooters, even to good big men shooters (like Kevin Love, like Aldridge, etc...) than to Monroe who can't shoot without doing that awful spin move to the basket.
    Josh Smith shot is inconsistent, we AAAALL know & knew that so it's not really a reliable source of assists.
    Drummond is. With all the alley oops and stuffs like that. But take a look around, it's hard to get assists in this roster, you pass it to an open KCP and you might not get the assists. You pas it to Stuckey and he might end up faking the shot and going for a collision, so, the assist rarely counts in those situations.

    It's easy to go hard on Jennings, I often do that during games, i'm as guilty of that as you are. But saying that we would be better with a rookie and Knight coming from the bench, is forgetting everything else.

    Is forgetting that this game is not always about the stats (that we all love, myself included) when comparing one player from one team to another player on different team.

    Personally, I also think Knight put more effort on defense than Jennings does. But I don't know how Knight would have deal with losing his spot to a rookie (Burke, following the idea of the main post) and playing with Iguodala, Josh Smith, Monroe and the franchise player, Drummond.

    I don't know that, you don't know that and nobody can possibly know that.

    Maybe Knight after a few years in a crappy Milwaukee team might end up being a solid star player and winning a championship surrounded by stars.

    BUT who knows how the 2013-2014 Knight would have deal with that roster? Nobody! That's my point.

    Jennings is what we have and I believe in him. I hate to see him bouncing from screen to screen, but I hope that change at some point in this season.
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    That's not me being hard on Jennings at all. I'm just pointing out that we weren't the clear winner from the trade even if you only compare Jennings to Knight. Maybe Jennings is slightly better overall than Knight. I'm not convinced of that, but I'm also not convince that it isn't true. Personally I liked Knight's defense and the potential that he was showing on offense with his quickness and 3-point shooting. I also like Jennings, especially his passing and the way that he pushes the pace. His defense isn't as bad as I expected. If I were Joe, I would have nabbed Burke though because I'm not confident that Knight or Jennings will ever get us to where we want to go. And this is coming from somebody that appreciates Pope.

    Are you saying that you think that we got the better of Milwaukee in this one? Are they regretting their move? They get virtually the same production out of Knight as they got out of Jennings (maybe a few assists per game less after Jennings said assists are hard to come by in MIL), plus they picked up a young starting SF that is top 10 in 3-point shooting, and they saved almost $4MM/year that they can used to allocate elsewhere.... AND they are tanking right into a top 3 draft pick in the best draft since LeBron/Melo/Wade/Bosh.


    If we would have drafted Burke and stuck with our roster, we'd look like this:
    Burke/ Bynum/ Siva
    Knight/ Stuckey
    Middleton/ Singler
    Monroe/ Jerebko/ Villanueva/ Mitchell
    Drummond/ Jorts

    Our total team salary would be $40.1M instead of $62.4M (we'd be barely the lowest in the league behind Philly). We'd have 5 guys who have played point guard.

    Our commitments for 2015 would drop to $23.8M instead of $41.7M in the echo of the 2003 draft class.



    And of course, since this is my fantasy, we'd get a top 3 draft pick, sign Lebron with all of our savings, and start the dynasty.
  18. S.J.

    S.J. Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I liked Knight too (I still do, I smile every time I check the Milwaukee box score and see that he score more than 20 points, even if that might end up becoming that we get the losing end of the trade. But I smile more when I see the Pistons winning, and in only 30 games into the season, it's hard to say that we are losers). (We are not winner's neither, but he might have to wait until 65-70 games to say one or the other)

    I was at the movie theater when the Pistons picked KCP, I was expecting Burke too and damned out loud when a friend of mine text me the draft news.
    I'm with you that Burke was the obvious choice. But who knows? Maybe in the interviews Dumars asked Burke if he see himself playing 15 minutes per night with Jennings getting the starting spot and he might said no. That's info that we might never get. (or maybe Burke would be glad to be with the Pistons and Dumars thought that KCP could be better)

    No. I think both teams win. They get to rebuild in, as you said, the most epic draft class since 2003.
    Only time will tell if they win, if Middleton can become a role player in a playoff team. If Knight can run the show with a star beside him.

    I don't think we would draft Siva if we already had Burke.
    And that team might end up losing the playoffs for little, giving the pick to the Bobcats (or winning the lottery as you said, but the odds of that are small)
    That might end up in Monroe leaving the team (Which today I wouldn't have any problem having Smith here, but if he leaves, who takes his spot now? Jerebko? Awful)
  19. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    BK sucks but forget about the less suckier Burke and Jennings, we could have had both Middleton and the Greek Fugitive!
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  20. max

    max All-Star

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    the most important aspect to me was getting Knight off this team. I could not stand that guy.
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