If we resign Monroe and let Stuckey/Charlie V go how much will we have in the off-season?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Mark V, Nov 5, 2013.

  1. Nemo

    Nemo The Great Predictor Forum Donor

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    If Stuckey continues on his path of glory, than I'll be concerned...that as an unrestricted free agent, he'll be a hot commodity.
    His 8.5 mil may become peanuts next to his future deal. I just don't want JD to sign that rascal...let alone for 12-13 mil per season.
    I just see him becoming disgruntled again after he signs...and then destroying our team chemistry........
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  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    How much have other 6th man of the year runner ups received in FA?
  3. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    History has shown that even kinda young-ish, quality big men can be moved, regardless of their contract. I would pay Moose whatever the market demands, and then move him if I couldn't swallow the tax bill, which Gores most certainly can.

    I agree that he probably won't reach his ceiling playing next to Dre, at least statwise. We're probably looking at a guy who will max out at 17 and 9. Having said that, I do believe that his defense is improving, and if he can learn to consistently hit that 15-17 footer (which I believe he can), then we have a fantastic #2 big.
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  4. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    What J-Train said.

    Moose is getting better. He's already a great scorer. He's a crafty rebounder and can get his own shot. He's a 15/9 guy. He is a team player and is not a ego-driven loose cannon. Oh, and he's only 23.

    The only thing Monroe has going against him is he is already on our roster. If we had gone with someone else in the 2010 draft, the whole forum would now be cooking up CV+Stuckey for Greg Monroe trade scenarios.
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  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    There are some serious redundancies between Dre, Moose, and Josh. That's why it's really incredible that Dre's stats are so eye popping.

    If we S&T'd Monroe for the best 2-way SF available, it would probably make us better overall, even if that SF isn't quit as good at SF as Moose is at PF. I.e. we could trade down slightly and the reduction in redundancies would outweigh it and more.
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  6. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    The only way that I would take any significant reduction in talent, is if that 2-way SF gave us a good chance at winning a championship. Being marginally better and winning 5 more regular season games wouldn't be worth it. I'd rather wait and see if we could get equal or better value for him.
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He's a big man with youth. The ideal trading chip.
  8. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

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    The below really doesn't support that statement. How is my information skewed. I simply pulled up the head to head on a basketball statistic site and went through it.

    I can't think of any information that supports the argument that big men peak at 23. Maybe he doesn't develop a 15 footer. Maybe he doesn't become a lock down defender. But all of that is irrelevant when he is a top 15 offensive big guy only 4 years in to the league. It seems to me that he has improved every year since he came in, whether it is his dribble drive or his little righty hook.

    And he is still getting his even with a stacked front court. Gasol has to shoulder an increased offensive load because Kobe has been injured/not playing that well and the Lakers team is made up of spare parts. Yet he is still not stacking stats.

    Obviously the better option is a sign and trade. Trading Monroe as an expiring contract will certainly not net us a big return. As a sign & trade we can do a lot better. Even if we have to pay him $15m a year (which is the max for a rookie scale extension w/out the Derrick Rose rule btw)

    Who are these magical free agents? And why are they signing with us when we just traded away a serious asset or let him walk.

    Having a big ugly contract with only one year left is not necessarily flexibility. I'm sure he would be a great veteran presence, and he is great at making passes to cutters. I'm not saying he is a bad player.

    Do you really want to see Pau Gasol guard Kevin Love? I assure you it will be another career night just like it was against Monroe.

    The maximum Moose can be paid is 4yrs 15m/yr with 5% increases because he sure as hell isn't getting the designated player 5 year extension. So about 60m. He can't be given the DR rule because he hasn't made enough All star appearances/all nba teams. Pau Gasol will demand at least 12m/yr for 3 years. So no, the contract argument isn't weak because I would still much rather pay a young guy a little bit more than a declining one.

    The statline argument is extremely important. There is nothing else to it. It quantifies the idea that Pau Gasol is a once incredible player who is now rapidly declining. It quantifies the idea that Greg Monroe is an all star talent on the offensive end, and is still improving, and more to the point, quantifies the idea that paying Pau Gasol $21m a year to be a lesser player is bad idea. For all of Gasols intangibles the Lakers are still under .500 and looking ugly.

    Monroe isn't good at defense. But the problem is, that neither is Gasol anymore. So I don't really understand what your point is.
  9. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    As Josh Smith continues to round into form, Monroe seems like he's becoming more of a 12 and 8 guy (with no jump shot and bad defense) as opposed to a the 17 and 10 guy we thought he would become. I like the new and improved Stuckey (as well as Monroe); but are we best served to go after these guys as opposed to other free agents? I'm thinking we might be better served by letting them go elsewhere and target Deng and Lance Stephenson. I think it would make us better and simultaneously make Indy and Chicago worse.
  10. McQuack

    McQuack Bench Warmer

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    I'm starting to come around the idea that trading Monroe might be the best thing for this team. I don't think he is as valueble as I first thought. I mean, it will mostly take what Charlotte paid for Jefferson to keep him, and Jefferson is a much better player... atleast at this stage of their careers.

    Good bigs are rare to find, but it seems like it will always be Good offensive, bad defensive-bigs available in the FA market. Last couple of years: Carlos Boozer, David Lee, Al Jefferson comes to mind quickly. Monroe is not even better than anyone of them right now.

    Either way, we are going to need a good perimeter, no matter who we have at the 4. Josh Smith is obviously not going to make us a championship team as the starting SF.
  11. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

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    Stephenson will be resigned. We would have to offer a yuge contract to pull him from Indiana. Granger will be let go and they will have the money. Deng makes us a better team when we don't have Monroe, because Smoove stays at PF and we get a SF who can shoot, pass, rebound and play defense effectively. Deng is jack of all trades at the 3 and he is worth every penny of a 12-14m/yr contract.
  12. McQuack

    McQuack Bench Warmer

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    I really want us to target Deng. He's a great player, and a real fighter. Probably one of the toughest perimeter defenders in the league, and very servicable on offense.

    One of the few players I would be okey with letting Monroe go for (realistic possabilities, of course).
  13. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    So after another embarrassing loss at home, here's what I'm thinking:
    No way I pick up the team option on Billups next year.
    Allow Moose and Stuckey to walk.
    Somehow we have to get Jonas off the books.

    If all of the above happens:
    Sign Deng, $14M/yr.
    Sign Stephenson or Evan Turner for about the same amount of money that New Orleans gave Tyreke Evans. I'd also be keeping Ariza on the radar.

    Essentially I'm saying sign 2 of the following: Turner, Stephenson, Ariza.

    But even if we keep Monroe......Lance Stephenson is still my #1 free agent target in lieu of keeping Rodney Stuckey.
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  14. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

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    For arguments sake, next years cap is going to be $58.7m

    We have $42.2m on the books including Jerebko. If somehow we get rid of his contract then we have 37.7 + 2nd round pick (i'm assuming we lose our first) so lets call it $38.2m

    If Deng accepts our 14m/4yr contract (flat) then we go to 51.7. We then have $7m + the MLE. Stephenson probably will get offered more than that, despite in my mind being overpriced at that level. We can't go over the cap to sign new players, so that rules out Turner and Stephenson, unless they are that desperate to play for Detroit.

    If we get Deng, there isn't much point in signing Ariza to play as backup SF. However, we could go after someone like Jordan Hamilton (DEN) for that duty. He can probably be had for the MLE, giving us $7m to play with.

    If Monroe is gone, maybe we can score a backup PF like Kris Humphries for the $7m. We can go over the cap to resign Stuckey for a similar contract. Bench= Stuckey/Hamilton/Singler/Humphris/Harrelson. That isn't terrible + we still have Mitchell to play either forward position and maybe resign Siva for injury depth.
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Can we amnesty dumars?
  16. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

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    Doesn't seem worth it since even with him we are well under the popcorn cap, might free up some butter though.
  17. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Not so fast my friend! The cap will go up by about $1M. Also, we can decline Chuancey's $2.5M team option.
    That means we can offer Stephenson almost $10M. I think we can get him with that or at least make Bird put on his big joy pants to keep him.

    The more I think about it.....I'm thinking Ariza and Stephenson (or Turner) would be 2 GREAT free agent pick ups.
  18. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

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    Supposedly it will go up to $62m (+2.5-3m) next year, but we can only play with what we know. Also I included declining Chauncey's option.

    This is the best year Ariza has ever had. I wouldn't bet the bank on him staying this good for a long time. I would support a move for Turner but we desperately need more 3 point shooting. I'm more with you on Stephenson. He can shoot 3's and would be a great 6th man for me as well as being a good defender.

    I still think that Kyle Korver would make our offense look good. Plonk it into Monroe/Smith in the post and double dare teams to help off the perimeter.
  19. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    We already have a cheaper version of Kyle Korver.

    Player: FGA/FGM/TS%/ORat/DRat/Age/Salary (per 36 where applicable)
    Korver: 9.10/ 4.40/ .661/ 119/ 107/ 32/ $6.76MM
    Singler: 9.00/4.40/ .613/ 122/ 111/ 25/ $1.05MM

    The only difference is that Korver's TS% is 2nd in the league and Singler's is 8th. They are equally selective in their shot selection. Korver has a higher 3-point conversion rate, but Singler partially makes up for it by drawing more fouls and converting in transition more often. Personally, I'd take the nearly $6MM in savings and roll with the 25 year old. The beauty is that we still have Singler next year at about the same price while Atlanta is stuck with an aging player through 2017.

    For a guy who's 3rd in Win Shares on his team, Singler isn't getting much recognition, even with his own fans.

    He's leading our team in 3-point percentage. He's 3rd in 2 point percentage behind 2 centers (Drumm and Jorts). He's 3rd in FT% behind 2 former point guards (Billups and Stuckey). He's 4th on the team in total rebounds, despite playing SF and coming off the bench. He's even 4th on the team in total blocked shots. And Harrellson and Pope are the only 2 guys on the team that turn it over less than him. Dude is fundamentally sound.

    But he's not just taking open shots. He draws fouls at a higher rate per FGA than anybody on the team. In order after him are Monroe, Drummond, Stuckey, and Bynum.

    Best recognize the Singularity.
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