If you could change one decision joe dumars made...

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by blueadams, May 6, 2009.

  1. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    see the post over ur head.....even your list: total all star appearances? 2
    I'm looking for GREAT!:hoops:
  2. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

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    Barely good? That list are all key contributors/starters/rookies on their way to being starters. Whats great to you? Like, wheres your standard? They're standouts in the best league in the world. Ben Gordon played at Uconn but he's still a Euro product. Playing 2 years in NCAA changes anything. In his first NCAA year he was 2'nd in scoring.

    Illglauskus was an allstar and was easily in the top 5 centers in the league for multiple years. Deng/Okur/Hedo/Bargnani/Gasol/Gasol/Calderone/Dirk/Parker/Manu/Gordon/Yao are all top 1 2 or 3 players on seperate teams. Thats before even considering players like Dream/Mutombo/Petrovich/Schremph/Sabonis who are all time international greats.

    I mean, this is without google and just off the top of my head. Just about all those players are probably in the top 50 of the league or very young/on their way and that makes them upper crust.

    Really, I think you're under rating their talent and over rating the home talent.
  3. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

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    2 allstar appearances???? Ha, umm... no. count again. And its a pretty weak system if you only count greatness by who's an all star. There are a million reasons for making/not making the all star team. Is Chris Gattling GREATer then like, Brian Grant or Jalen Rose because he made an all star team and they didn't? Is Theo Ratliff better then Marcus Camby? Its just lazy logic to say that list sucks when they don't because of arbitrary all star nods.
  4. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    thats because my 'original' comment was European, NOT international. Hell, we ALL international...jsut international-American! LOL
  5. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    again...I'm not a ESPN guy. I said name 10 GREAT Euro-ball players based on their NBA careers. .....As Prince said, "Stil--il--il il Wait---ing!"
  6. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

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    My first list was only euro players though. And the perception we are talking about is non-US players in all fairness but even with Europe, the notion that they can't play has just been soundly deflated.

    Sure, Darko was a bust, but so was Derick Coleman, Olawakandi and Kwame Brown. I wonder what the proportion of Euro busts to Euro draftees is. I'm guessing its actually lower since in Europe there is a much greater emphasis on developing skills where a guy like Harold Minor can get by on ahtleticism alone till he actually has to win games.
  7. indiefan23

    indiefan23 First Round Draft Pick

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    and what you said before:

    Hmm... I'll stick with my previous list cuz just about everyone on it is a great standout player at the NBA level. Its peppered with all stars, championship finals MVPs, franchise players and all time greats so I'm not sure what standard you have there.

    If you want to agrue that of the top 10 players in the NBA a little over half of them are from the states, thats fine with me. But you basicly said that European players all suck. 1 out of 15 is a bust? Seriously I'm willing to bet you right now that more US players are busts then European ones. Ill even go further and bet you a higher proportion of Euro players are GREAT then US ones.

    Observe this list and tell me how many players on it you consider GREAT.

    Jason Collier
    Mateen Cleeves
    Courtney Alexandar
    Etan Thomas
    Kenyan Dooling
    Joel Prysbila
    Jamal Crawford
    Chris Mhim
    DerMarr Johnson
    Mike Miller
    Marcus Fizer
    Darius Miles
    Stromile Swift

    Thats all the American players who were drafterd BEFORE Hedo Turkolou. 20/5/6 stats and unquestioned closer for a 59 win team. The only other guy was one solitary player from france.

    Would you like to continue?
  8. CarlosGallan

    CarlosGallan First Round Draft Pick

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    There are appropriate players for NBA players and others who are better suited to the game in Europe.
    Jasikevicius is an elite player,with national selection,barcelona (my team) where he played alongside Bodiroga,Panathinaikos or Macabbi,but he can´t run in golden state system,is evident. He has no strength or speed to nba.
    Player who can defend nba level,are tall and fast like Ginobili,rudy,Gasol brothers or Ricky Rubio are perfect,because normally european level players has good perimeter shoot,unless nba coach don´t want profite(like Pau who gone nba playing SF or Marc who can shot good level mid range shoot).
    Minessota last year pick Pekovic,win this year euroleague,better ofensive player,unstopable,is not darko and minessota must wait one or two more years,but it wold be next Ilgauskas,offensive version.
    On the other hand there´s a lot of bad players(how many slovenians in nba? one good?),scouters must see quality.
    Fran Vazquez,best dunker and blocker of acb league,play in barcelona was a 11 firs round pick,but mentally was a full failure 3 years ago, today he is matured and developed but prefers money and his country,despite his nba body and nba way of playing.

    Marc Gasol,pekovic or Rubio will be good deals for pistons,but detroit last years with the exception of Stuckey has not given any opportunity to consolidate their rookies.
    In this scenario we can not expect any consolidated player(european,american... )if you are not hiring a lot more expensive free agents.
  9. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    If I could change one decision that Joe made it would be hiring Flip Saunders.

    I honestly believe that Joe woulda found a way to work things out with LB if he coulda. Bill-D wasn't having it though. I don't really pin the firing of Larry Brown on Joe. That decision was made from above.

    Joe coulad have done a little more homework though and brought in a coach that was more suitable for the Pistons (IMO championship caliber) roster. Flip was not the right man for the job and the wrong man for a roster that hung it's hard hat on defense.

    As for drafting DMC? Yeah, wrong move in a 20/20 hindsight kinda way. Bosh would have been the safest (and best) pick IMO. NOT Carmelo Anthony.
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I was a little disappointed that Jasikevisius didn't work out here. He's the man in Europe. So competitive.
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I forgot Arvydas Sabonis, probably the greatest European baller ever.
  12. CarlosGallan

    CarlosGallan First Round Draft Pick

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    Saras(jasikevicius) was my favorite player of barcelona, he can lead a team,motivate his teammates and keep hot fans all game,Saras was barcelona like ben in detroit badboys 2. Four years after living barcelona,last week he said win euroleague with PAO was the same than footballl barcelona victory over our archyenemy real madrid playing visitor:gun1:
    Saras were not well playing nba in warriors,saras is a leader not a bench player secondary,warrior system needs fast game,saras play together tall and rock players in lituania,in barcelona he win euroleague playing with navarro breaking from the perimeter,Bodiroga playing in the post or 2,20 centimeters Roberto Dueñas in defensive role,like Mutombo or Thabeet. warriors have diferent type players,panatinaikos also play static game not run and gun.His deffense is other problem.
    In other team one younger jasikevicius may be had success?,san antonio spurs?
  13. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Good one - a true old school center.

    I'm coming to really like Ilgauskas. It's too bad he was injured so much during his prime, and playing on some bad teams. He's every bit as crafty as Sheed on the defensive end, has some range, shoots from the post, and is probably the smartest rebounder since Moses.

    I'd sure like to see a foot race between him and Herrmann.
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Herrmann vs. Bavetta would be a good one too.
  15. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    There are only two legendary players on that list: Memo and Hedo.

    There's a tiny chance that I might be slightly biased in my opinion, but that's how I see it.
  16. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    I'm surprised no one has mentioned the late Drazen Petrovitch.
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I thought HQ did mention him.
  18. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    no..I'm bored now! yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn:)
  19. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    i like him, but I;m going on NBA stats! How may points a game u think Bird and Jordan would have averaged in Europe?
  20. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Aw, missed that.

    Have to wonder if Rubio will be the real deal or not. One player I really like, who I think is under the radar is Gallinari. Saw him play live a few times last year, in some really good seats. He is the real deal. Even with severe back problems (the kid could barely walk), he was quick, played agressive D, defended the 3, 4, and 5 spot, and probably has the best stroke on the Knicks, nailing 3 after 3. If his back surgery was successful, expect him to start next year and put up some big numbers. He's a better version of what people thought Bargnani was going to be.

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