If you were building the perfect all-time team..

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by blueadams, Dec 1, 2012.

  1. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    First of all, apologies for another non-pistons post here. I love basketball. I love talking basketball. And I love the Pistons. But reading/posting about them right now just depresses me (watching the games is hard enough). I need to get a little closer to the light at the end of the tunnel - the off-season - before I can do it again.

    Alright, so, on to the team. IMPORTANT note. This isn't just a list of who you think the best 12 players of all time are. It's far more complex than that. It's which 12 players do you think would actually combine to make the best TEAM. Here are my choices...in the order that I made them. I'd LOVE to hear some of the board's picks/thoughts on this!!

    Head coach - Chuck Daly. This obviously isn't just about who won the most rings. It's about who could handle this roster full of hall of famers. Who could deal with the personalities? Who could assign roles and stand by them? Who could keep his players happy while getting what he needed out of them? Honorary psychologist Chuck Daly gets the nod from me. I was too young to see his hey-day, but I've heard and read enough of the legend. Guys like Red Auerbach, Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, etc. might've won more...but with legendar[FONT=Calibri]y HoF rosters, a lot of HC's could've won as much (IMO). I did consider Gregg Popovich - the best coach of m[FONT=Calibri]y generation - quite strongl[FONT=Calibri]y. And to a lesser extent, Larr[FONT=Calibri]y Brown and Jerr[FONT=Calibri]y Sloan. But in the end, Chuck was the man for me.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
     
  2. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    #1) Starting PG - Magic Johnson. Magic was my first choice amongst the players. For starters, he's a part of THAT very small, very elite conversation - - Who is the single greatest player of all-time? But what made him the first choice here is that he was a true team player, in every sense of the word. Not a huge ego. A pass-first guy who loved the assist as much, if not more than, the point. A great, loved and respected teammate. And all about the W's. Also incredibly versatille.

    #2) Starting C - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Much like Magic, one of the few guys who is a part of that "Who is the greatest single player of all-time" conversation. Also much like Magic, a true team player. A legendary scorer and defender. A guy who was all about winning. A guy who would be perfect for this team.


    #3) Starting SG - Michael Jordan. NOT a great team player. But probably the single greatest player of all-time. Only room for one guy on a team like this, and MJ gets it. He's your go-to scorer. As much as I hate him - wins did come first, and he was a tenacious competitor.

    #4) Starting PF - Bill Russell. A center in his day, but a power forward by today's standards. Arguably the greatest team player (and winner) of all time. A great defender, rebounder and passer. One of the smartest to ever set foot on the hard wood. He'd be a perfect member of this team.

    #5) Starting SF - Larry Bird. Not the greatest athlete, but one of the greatest competitors, and one of the greatest team players of all time. Few loved to win more than him. And, as probably the greatest pure shooter of all time, he adds a special dimension to this team - spreading the court out.
     
  3. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    #6) Backup SF/SG/PF - LeBron James. Love Larry all you want, but the fact is there are a number of SF's in the league today that he wouldn't be able to guard. That's what makes LeBron James a valuable asset to this team. One of the most freakish athletes of all-time, he's also one of the most purely talented players of all-time. And though he's a major a-hole, his game is actually quite team-oriented; and I think he prefers being a distributor to a scorer at heart. His versatility also makes him quite valuable.

    #7) Backup C - Shaquille O'Neal. Sure, I agree. There are a number of big-men who were better 'players' than Shaq. But Shaq in his prime was the most physically dominant force the game had ever seen (imagine him in Wilt's era!?). He creates unbelievable matchup problems - and for that reason alone - earns a spot on this team.

    #8) Backup PG - Oscar Robertson/Isiah Thomas. This was the toughest call I had to make - and I still can't make it. All the objective signs point to Big O. He was more versatille, big enough to guard 1's or 2's at 6-5, 220lbs. And he was probably more talented too. But, damnit, I just can't seem to do it. Zeke was my favorite player of all-time. The toughest player of all-time IMO. The fiercest competitor of all-time IMO. One of the greatest leaders of all-time IMO. Tough, tough call.

    #9-12) The Role-Players/Defenders. No team can be made up entirely of super-stars, can it? These ARE all HoF'ers, lol, but I think they would've been able to embrace their status as role players on this team. I'll start with Hakeem Olajuwon (who I really wanted to go with over Shaq), the greatest defensive big-man of all-time...and so much more. Dennis Rodman, the greatest defensive forward of all-time, bar-none. Joe Dumars, the greatest defensive shooting guard of all-time. And Walt Frazier, the greatest defensive point guard of all-time (sorry Glove).
     
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Not sure that russell could guard shaq in his prime. Would be curious how it would go.

    With that starting lineup, I'm wondering if they have enough go to offensive players that adding rodman would make them better (replace Bird?). Just think of having to score on mj, rodman, russell, and jabar... Magic would then not have to worry about letting small pgs by him.
     
  5. vincy4fish98

    vincy4fish98 Bench Warmer

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    Hey Tashawn,

    he had Russell at PF, but I think he could guard Shaq, although undersized he was very wily and quick. He also had to go against Chamberlain who many claim is just as strong as Shaq back in the day.
     
  6. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    No love for Jerebko at PF? Russells smartness and D surely helps the team a great deal but is it the homer in me speaking if I claim that Jerebkos hustle could be of even greater benefit?
     
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  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Although he is the prototypical power forward, Jerebko's resume leaves him short of Russell. Jerebko only has as many Championships as Chamberlain.
     
  8. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    Interesting assignment.

    sPG - Magic Johnson. The guy loved playing the game, was unselfish, and could kill a lot of other PGs with his height. One of the smoothest players of all time, and capable of dropping 30 each night.
    sSG - Michael Jordan. The best and most competitive player of all time. Great defender, could drop 30 without putting too much effort into it. Any list that doesn't start with this guy can be immediately discounted.
    sSF - Lebron James. Arguably the most skilled basketball player in history, and a guy whose on-court unselfishness is underrated. He doesn't WANT to be the man, and he'll be on a team full of guys that are willing to be the man. Like Magic, he's capable of playing positions 1-5, and as was already stated here, that versatility is essential.
    sPF - Dennis Rodman. Most underrated player of all time. The team doesn't need five guys that can score (although Rodman could), but they do need a guy that can do all the little things. I don't even need to do much arguing here, though, because this guy, in one of greatest things the internet has ever created, (and containing this joyous little app), definitively makes the case for me. Best offensive rebounder of all time.
    sC - David Robinson. Mr. Forgotten. Averaged 21 points, 10 rebounds and 3 blocked shots per game for his career. Fourth all time in PER, fourth all time in defensive rating. Great team player, only slightly better than Tim Duncan, who is a slightly better rebounder, slightly less of a shot-blocker. I flipped a coin (literally) and have Robinson starting.

    bG - Steve Nash. I would give a testicle to be able to watch him on the break with Dr. J, and he is an underrated 3-point shooter. Purely offense, but the greatest facilitator of all time.
    bG - Reggie Miller. There is nobody in history more dangerous from the 3-point arc, nobody more notoriously clutch.
    bF - Dr. J. Style, style, style. Exciting, flashy, and a great defensive player.
    bF - Larry Bird. Could do everything except run and jump. He was an excellent three-point shooter, great rebounder for the position, great scorer, great winner.
    bF - Tim Duncan. I'm cheating here by putting him as a forward, but that's just so I could put him, Shaq, and Olajuwon on the list. He's great in any half-court offense, a great team player. 2nd all time in defensive rating.
    bC - Shaquille O'Neal. Gorilla-slammed his way to 24ppg. The most dominating player of all time in his prime, 2nd all-time in PER. He'd be starting if he were a better defender, but mid-career Shaq is first off the bench. Nash would average like 20 assists per game with him starting.
    bC - Hakeem Olajuwon. Again - great scorer, great defender. I had to find a way to get him on the team.

    Coach - Chuck Daly. I agree with everything blueadams said about him.

    Notable Exclusions:
    Kareem-Abdul Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell: These guys were outstanding in their times, but the game has passed them by. If I'm picking a list of the all-time greats, they might be on it. If I'm building a team, though, I have to give consideration to who they'd play against and there's no way that Wilt Chamberlain could possibly handle a guy like Shaq, and there's no way that Russell would outrebound Rodman.
    John Stockton, Karl Malone: You can't take one guy without the other. Best one-two punch of all time, but I can't justify putting both on this list.
    Charles Barkley: Honestly, he's probably next on my list. He was ahead of his time, but I can't justify him over Erving, Bird, or Duncan.
    Oscar Robertson, Chris Paul: Amazing offensive players, not good enough defensively, and with Lebron on the team, I don't need a third pure PG.. If Robertson was a good three-point shooter, he may have snuck onto the roster above Nash, but alas.
     
  9. vincy4fish98

    vincy4fish98 Bench Warmer

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    I know this is debateable and I respect your list, but I would take Zeke over Nash as the backup G all day and twice on Sunday. This is almost like the Dream Team all over again and there is no way I leave him off this list this go around. Also, I put the Dream ahead of Mr. Robinson. I remember what he did to him the year David Robinson was the supposed MVP in the playoffs enroute to his second championship.
     
  10. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    I loved Zeke, but he could be a pain in the ass to his teammates. He also wasn't nearly as good a three-point or free throw shooter. Neither was a stellar defender. It's probably a closer call than I'm giving it credit for, but I'll still stick with Nash because I think he was more fun to watch (subjective opinion, I know).
     
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Nash more fun to watch than Zeke?

    Isiah was magical. When he got in the zone, nothing could stop him.
     
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  12. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    Hmm.. Good responses so far.

    Laimbrane. If you haven't taken a look at some of Kareem's accolades recently, I think you should. I mean...just look at this picture of him towering over Dwight Howard as an old man - Google Image Result for http://kareemabduljabbar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/kajdwighthoward.jpg - and try telling me that the game's "passed him by."

    He was 7 feet 3 inches tall, with freakishly long arms, hops, athleticism, and un-real coordination. He had the single most unstoppable shot in the history of the game, the skyhook. Something that would still be very unstoppable. He won a record six league MVP awards. He was named to 19 all-star teams. He was 1st team All-NBA defense 11 times. He won six cNBA hampionships. He won 2 NBA Finals MVP's - the second at 38 years old. He's the NBA's all-time points leader. That guy was the greatest. And he was a hell of a team player too.

    Also agree above with Hakeem vs. Robinson (also took down Ewing and O'Neal that post-season). Also agree with Isiah over Nash - I mean, come on. Zeke vs. Nash would be the same story as Zeke vs. Stockton, maybe worse.
     
  13. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    Jabbar's career shooting percentage was about 1% above Robinson's. That means that if, over the course of a seven game series, he takes 100 shots, he would make one more (on average). Shaq's, for comparison, was 2.5% above Kareem. You say he had the single most unstoppable shot in history. That's false - Shaq had the single most unstoppable shot in history. The only difficulty was getting the ball into him, but that's why Steve Nash is on the team.

    He was also MVP at a time when PPG was the only real stat that people kept. Yes, he scored more points than anyone else in the league. He also took more shots than anyone else in the league.

    Robinson is there as much for defense as for offense. The guy was one of the top defensive players of all time, and that matters. Jabbar was rail-thin, but Robinson was not, and could handle the physicality that would come with the position.

    Shaq had a higher shooting percentage and rebounding percentage, which measures actual efficiency, not just pure numbers. He was a better offensive player in his prime than Jabbar was. Robinson was a strictly better defensive player, and Olajuwon was a perfect balance of both.
     
  14. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Not even an ankle that mere mortals would have been out for the count with...
     
  15. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    I've put some serious thought into this since I made the original post. It's a lot more fun - and complicated - than I ever would have imagined..

    First of all, I want to start off in a new direction. I think the first thing you need to think about when talking about something like this is TEAM STYLE. What kind of team do I want to have? It might not be the best style..but it's my favorite to watch, it's my favorite to play, I think it's the best to play, and if I was ever a head coach, it's for sure the style I would coach. I want to RUN. Fast-Break Basketball. I want a team that full-court presses on defense. Forces turnovers. And RUNS. A team that mercilessly wears down its opponents over a 48 minute contest.

    Now, who do I want for that kind of team?

    Starting Lineup:

    PG: Magic Johnson
    SG: Michael Jordan
    SF: Kobe Bryant
    PF: LeBron James
    C: Wilt Chamberlain


    ...How about this for a fast-break offense!? Magic pushing the ball. MJ and Kobe coming down the wings. LeBron coming down the middle. Wilt trailing. Seems about as good as it could get to me. Magic is the best PG - and for sure, the best fast-break PG - of all-time, so I don't need to talk much about that. MJ's probabl[COLOR=#000000]y THE best pla[FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]yer of all-time, one of the best athletes of all time (fast-break ball), and one of the best defenders of all time. Kobe's probabl[FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]y the closest thing there's ever been to MJ, and he's big enough to pla[FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]y alongside him. Amongst those with the abilit[FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]y to pla[FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]y the four, LeBron is probabl[FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]y far and awa[FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]y the most talented pla[FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]yer of all-time (in terms of a st[FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]yle like this, for sure). And amongst the great big men, Wilt was probabl[FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]y the most athletic, and thus, the best for this team - - though I could be wrong about that and would love to hear some feedback!![/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
     
  16. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    Backup PG: Steve Nash. This was a real tough call for me. Isiah's - far and away - my favorite player of all time. And Big O is probably the second greatest PG of all time. But who is the second best fast-break PG of all-time, behind Magic? I think it's Steve Nash. He doesn't seem to be taken that seriously in conversations like this yet...but he is the only PG besides Magic to win multiple MVP awards.

    Backup SG/SF/PF: Dominique Wilkins. People seem to forget how big Nique was. Almost as big as LeBron at 6-8, 230. Big enough to man the four on this team for sure. And athletic enough to fill in at the two or three as well. One of the best fast-break players of all-time is perfect off the bench for this squad. FWIW, Clyde Drexler was probably the next closest, but Nique's ability to play the 4 seperated him. Likewise for Julius Erving, George Gervin, etc.

    Backup C: Kevin Garnett. This is going to draw criticism. I need an athletic backup center to spell Wilt when he's tired. Someone who can run the court. None of the traditional all-time greats at center seem to really be great running athletes. Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, Duncan, etc. I even momentarily considered Dwight Howard here. But no - I went with KG. At 6-11, 255, he's more than big enough for center. Best athlete I've ever seen at that height for sure. And just how dominant he was in his prime in Minnesota is often forgotten.

    Three Point Specialist: Reggie Miller. This was another tough call. Now that I've got someone to spell Magic, someone to spell Wilt, and someone who can spell LeBron, Kobe and MJ, spell their main roles on the team...I can start looking for extra weapons. Team needs an outside shooter. Someone who can come in and spread the court. This was a tough call. I took Reggie over Larry Bird. I think Reggie was close to as good a shooter - thought not as complete or proven as a player, not at all. And I think that Reggie would fit better into this running style. Jerry West and, oddly enough, Dirk Nowitzki were others I considered here.

    Inside Scoring Specialist: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. The fast-break offense can be slowed down. Not by an opponent's defense, but by their offense. When this happens, we might need to revert to more of a traditional half-court offense, and when we do that, we're going to need a reliable, dominant, go-to scorer down low. For my money, Kareem's the best there ever was in that regard. Shaq some will say. Hakeem some will say. Hell, even Duncan - or even Malone - some will say. Kareem's who I'm going with for now.

    Defensive Specialist(1): Dennis Rodman. Bill Russell might've been as good of a defender of C's and PF's as Rodman. But Rodman might've also been the best all-time defender of threes and big twos. I'll go with D.

    Defensive Specialist(2):
    Walt Frazier. Magic and Nash leave a lot to be desired defensively at PG. Well, Walt secures that hole. Best defensive point guard of all time. At 6-4, also big enough to guard the two's that Rodman can't.
     
  17. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Wow, blue, no love for Drummond?
     
  18. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Still thinking about it.... but wanted to add to your Rodman comment and how he fits in on your team.... remember how many def rebounds he'd take and then finish the break... the man was just crazy quick... perfect in that style of play.
     
  19. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    My thoughts exactly (I couldn't make that post much longer than it was though! lol)
     
  20. vincy4fish98

    vincy4fish98 Bench Warmer

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    Blue if fast break and running is your criteria, take out Chamberlain at the Center position and insert Bill Russell. He was quick and was in track and field before playing basketball. The man even ran the 400, not to mention could jump out of the gym.
     

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