If you were building the perfect all-time team..

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by blueadams, Dec 1, 2012.

  1. Nemo

    Nemo The Great Predictor Forum Donor

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    Good team...but you need a coach with a cigar hanging out of his mouth to coach the old skool players. :)
  2. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    You forgot Khris Middleton?
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  3. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    I tend to think he was a bit overrated, given his entire starting lineup of HoFers. Likewise to Phil.
  4. Nemo

    Nemo The Great Predictor Forum Donor

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    Phil is overrated. I was hoping he would take on a project. Pistons coach would be ideal to culminate his career.
    Cigar boy is just classic............:)
  5. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    Alllright, so, after much research and thought on the matter.....I am finally comfortable with a 12-man team. Still have some questions about who should start in the front court, however..

    C: W. Chamberlain, K. Abdul-Jabbar, S. O'Neal
    PF: H. Olajuwon, B. Russell
    SF: L. James, L. Bird
    SG: M. Jordan, K. Bryant
    PG: M. Johnson, O. Robertson, J. West
    HC: C. Daly, AC: G. Poppovich

    I am 100% comfortable with most of this team.

    I'm 100% comfortable with the coaches I've selected (though I still, of course, have a little more research to do on that front. But, given what I do know at this time, 100% comfort).

    I'm 100% comfortable with the 1-3 positions. Magic's the best point-guard of all-time. Oscar's the second best (little debate between those two - and no one else - but I'm more or less comfortable with choosing Magic as the starter). MJ's the best shooting-guard of all-time. Kobe's the second best (very little to no debate there). Jerry West is the perfect 5th - combo - guard. I'm close to 100% sure that there's no one else I'd want for that role. I'm 100% comfortable stating that LeBron is the best SF of all time, and that Bird is the second best SF of all time.

    It's the front-court that's still giving me pause..

    First, I've gotten to the point where I am 100% comfortable declaring Wilt as THE best big-man of all-time. He was a once in a 100 year FREAK. He's good to go.

    Second, I'm close to 100% confident in the other 4 selections I made for big men: Olajuwon, Kareem, Russell, Shaq. It's hard to leave Duncan off the roster. He might be better than one of those 4. But he's not better than Hakeem, IMO. And he doesn't bring anything to the court that Hakeem doesn't...whereas each of the others does bring something unique.
    Kareem's gotta be on the team. He accomplished so much. He's regarded by some smart basketball people as THE best basketball player of all-time period. Statistically, next to Wilt, he probably is. But he did shoot the ball..a lot. A lot. And at 7-2, 225...just so skinny. There are a lot of players that would have been able to push him around. Hakeem - at 7-0, 255 - seems to match his offensive skill (at least), to match his defensive skill (at least), to match his rebounding skill (at least), to - more or less - match his athleticism, to match his skill with the ball (from what I understand, at least), and he's soo much stronger.

    Russell's gotta be on this team for sure too. There's a lot of debate about the quality of the era he played in, and how superior his teammates were...but a lot of smart basketball people think he's the second best player of all-time behind Jordan. Possibly the greatest defensive player and rebounder of all-time. One of the best big-man athletes ever. One of the best team players and winners ever. He deserves a spot on this team, for sure. But again, he wasn't as strong as Hakeem. He might have trouble with some big men Hakeem wouldn't. And while he could (not is) be the better defensive player and rebounder of the two - Hakeem is still great in those areas - and miles ahead of him as a post-scorer.


    Shaq deserves a role on this team as well. Moreso than Duncan, IMO. 7-1 325 and so agile. He just brings something to the court no one else does (imagine going big with Shaq and Wilt in
    your front-court!?!). But he's here in a backup role. And there isn't much doubt about that for me. Not the greatest athlete (though he was at one point quite an athlete). Not the greatest defender or rebounder (though, again, he was at one point). And he didn't have a great deal of endurance (again, at one point). And the free-throw shooting!! He's a dangerous role player on this team. He deserves to be, 100%. But not a starter I don't think.

    Thoughts / help?
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Hakeem was a center. I think you have a decision to make between Hakeem and Shaq. Shaq never won a title on this own. Hakeem didn't exactly play with Kobe or Wade in their prime3s, or have the benefit of a Phil Jackson or Pat Riley.

    That gives you room to add Duncan.
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  7. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    What makes Duncan less of a center than Hakeem?? David Robinson being on his team? Doesn't seem all that relevant of a distinction to me.
  8. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    It wasn't who he played with, but who he played without those 2 years. MJ.
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Hakeem actually played center.

    Calling Hakeem a PF is like calling John Stockton a shooting guard.

    All 30 teams in the association played without MJ those two years.
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  10. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    Sure, but he also went head-to-head with - and DOMINATED - a number of HoF big men in those two post-seasons. Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, K. Malone, Barkley. Take a look back at the head-to-head series numbers, please! He also won with a well-over-the-hill C. Drexler as his best teammate. Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Shaq, etc. ~ none of them ever won anything without at least one HoF in their prime at their side.

    Duncan won after Robinson left...but there's a good chance that both Ginobli and Parker end up being HoFers.
  11. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    If Hakeem was drafted by a team that had an established C already, he would've played PF too. Oh wait! He was. And he did. (alongside 7-4 Ralph Sampson in the tail-end of his career as a Rocket).

    The distinction between C and PF is obsolete. Duncan was a PF when Robinson was there. He was a C when Robinson wasn't. Hakeem was a PF when Sampson was there. He was a C when Sampson wasn't. Both Hakeem and Duncan are about the same size, with the same strengths, and with the same weaknesses. If anything - due to his superior athleticism - Hakeem is more of a PF than Duncan. Where they lined up at the tip-off is really irrelevant.
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Cognitive dissonance wins.
  13. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    A smart-ass comment, in combination with no factual basis for your argument, certainly doesn't.


    You're essentially arguing that Karl Malone should be on this team instead of Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Hakeem or Shaq because his wikipedia page says "PF"
  14. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Wikipedia says that Tim Duncan is a power forward/center. It says Hakeem Olajumon is a center.
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    It's not a smart ass comment. You've made a distinction on your team between PF and C, and then you argue there is no distinction. That is called cognitive dissonance.

    And now I have provided a factual basis for why you're wrong. You're not even wrong because you disagree with me, but that both of your opinions can't be true because they contradict one another.

    No, I am arguing that you need to have the 2 or 3 best players at each position, otherwise you should just list the 13 or 15 best players of all time, and not worry about filling out a proper roster.

    I don't really care one way or another. I have no interest in arguing with you. But Hakeem Olajuwon was a center, won two titles as a center, and just about anyone with anything to do with the NBA would say he was a center and not a PF.

    I can respect a minority opinion if it is insightful, the majority is frequently wrong, but if your only insight is "PF and C are the same thing" ...
  16. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    Want me to fix it?
  17. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    Umm.. no.

    I'm not arguing that the C and PF positions don't have different names. I'm arguing that they are interchangeable - i.e. requiring the same skill-set. I'm arguing that I'd rather have the second best "C" of all-time on the court than the first best "PF". I'm arguing that it would make for a better team. Want to call them big man #1 and big man #2 ? Go ahead, if it will end this ridiculous string of posts.

    The distinction between "C" and "PF" that you are citing is ludicrous.

    What makes the better in-game front court?

    Picking the best two out of Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Shaq, Olajuwon, Duncan and Malone.

    or picking the best one of Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Shaq and Olajuwon...and then picking the best one of Duncan and Malone.

    ??

    Tell me, what is the difference between what a center and a power forward needs to be able to do? Is it that the power forward needs to be more athletic? Name a more athletic HofF big man than Wilt or Russell. Is it that a power forward needs to be a better outside shooter? Name a better outside shooting HoF big man than Ewing (Dirk's not in the HofF,
    yet).

    Kobe's never been listed as a SF. But has he ever been on the court with two smaller guards? Damn right he has. Could he be a great SF if he needed to be? Damn right he could. If I thought that an super-athletic fast-break team would be better than a team with two great post defenders (which I don't), I'd go with LeBron at the 4 and Kobe at the 3.
  18. Woody

    Woody All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    How come no one as ever mentioned Bill (the blond-headed guy from UCLA and the Northwest) ? A great scorer and shot-blocker. His only weakness was injuries. He ought to be on our list of centers somewhere.
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  19. Woody

    Woody All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Bill Walton!

    My mind is a little slow.

    Better than Duncan, Malone, and Shaq, and most of the others listed above.

    He could be either a PF or C.
  20. Woody

    Woody All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Centers: Wilt, Jabbar, Olajuwon
    PF: Walton, Russell
    SF: James, Bird
    SG: Jordan, West
    PG: M. Johnson, O. Robertson

    HC: Daly, Auerbach, Popovich, Jackson (you pick'em)

    I'd like to get off the bus with these guys!!

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