im done wih the pistons

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by doublead, Jan 10, 2008.

  1. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Some of the offensive possessions we had in the third where were standing around and ending up with Tay shooting jumpers from 6 feet behind the 3 point line or Max shooting fall aways from double teams was what I was referring to. Seems they went through a stretch where they were trying to conserve energy to finish.

    Brings to mind the first 2 games of the year. Chauncey and Rip flying up and down the court with reckless abandon getting fast break lay ups because they knew they had capable back ups behind them. Aaaahhhhhhhh; those were the days.
     
  2. max

    max All-Star

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    I am done with them to.

    Going to wait a few years for all this championship nonsense to die down. Then we can get a nice young lottery team to root for with plenty of young players and great picks every year. We can see the bench play all we want on a team like that because there won't be anyone good enough to ever win a permanant spot.

    Give it a few more years folks.
     
  3. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I agree with the thoughts of D4E completely. I'm still trying to figure out how people can still find faults with a great win. I don't see the point of nitpicking apart every single game on an individual basis. If a trend forms, then yes there are some grounds for a more complete analysis.

    People from other teams forums must come on here, see this thread and think we are all from the bizarro world.
     
  4. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Good points webz, d4e, max, and others. Even if you hate Flip Saunders (which many in here do), you have to credit the Pistons coaching staff for having the team prepared to beat the Spurs.
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I agree 100% with Max. Chat has become frustrating, because it can turn into an endless whine fest.

    We're up 14 on the road, against the Champs, in possibly the toughest building in the league, against the best head coach in the league, and people want to quit on the team.

    Some of y'all ain't seen bad Pistons teams. You don't know what it is like to watch game after game of total futility.

    So what if Amir didn't play? I listened to a caller on Off The Court with Matt Dery the other day, and I could have swore the caller was talking about having Amir ready for the playoffs.

    Playoffs? Amir is going to play about as much as Darth Tater is going to play in our Hockey playoffs, which is to say, not very much.

    First he's light in the pants, second his floor instincts are muy mucho disappointing. That's facts folks. He's not ready yet. He's got some great physical attributes, that allow him to be a factor, but he's nowhere near where he needs to be, mentally or physically not to be a liability.

    And you can disagree with me on that, but what you can't disagree about, because the facts bear it out, is that this Pistons team is an elite team, in the East, and in the league. On many nights, they can beat anyone on the road.
     
  6. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Roscoe, you raise some excellent points, but I disagree with you that Darth Tater is "light in the pants".
     
  7. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    :pound:

    Obviously I agree with Roscoe agreeing with me, although I think the Amir brigade has a fair point in saying that he might not improve that much until he actually does get about 5-10 minutes on most nights. It might be a bit much to expect that to get him ready for real playoff minutes this season, but it doesn't seem like it would hurt the team to give it a shot.
     
  8. Chandragupta

    Chandragupta First Round Draft Pick

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    I would really like to see flip put in him for 3 or 4 minutes in the first half when we play some of the smaller frontcourt teams. And if we are winning, he can get good garbage time at the end. Any more than that would be pushing it at this point.

    But it seems that scenario is far from reality.
     
  9. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    I really have to praise Flipper for his patching up his relationship with Sheed this last summer and keeping it positive.

    Sheed is the main straw that stirs the drinks for us. If he is happy focused and working hard we can beat anyone on any night or in any series provided the games are fairly officiated.

    1. Sheed was ticked off over our performance in the last 4 minutes against Boston

    2. Sheed was ticked off over our playing small ball against Dallas


    Inspite of all of that he came up with a monster performance against the world champions in their house. 23 points, with only 1 three, and 15 boards. Those were the kind of numbers he used to put up in Portland.

    Does anyone seriously think that if Sheed and Flipper were not getting along that Sheed would have come up with that kind of game, especially after being ticked off over what went down against Boston and Dallas?


    DETROIT 90, SAN ANTONIO 80: 'SHEED'S RAGE: Officials anger Wallace into big night vs. 'Darling' Spurs

    :hoops:

    1. Sheed
     
  10. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    At least that's all I am trying to say. I am really really happy with their win-loss record. The team played very good for the most part. And they did beat one of the best teams in the NBA on their home court. But all I'm asking is find 5-10 minutes for AJ and for AA. Before the season started Flip said that he's willing to sacrifice wins in order to play the bench. Does he have anything to show for it? A lot was made about inadequate bench causing early playoff exits. Well, now that they do have a good bench, Flip has to utilize them. If they are not ready, what good does it do in the playoffs? Teams bring players off the bench not just to rest starters, but quite often to change the dynamics of the game. We have one of those players in J-Max, but other guys need some more minutes in order to become contributors.
     
  11. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    I think Stuckey's getting plenty enough minutes to become a real contributor. My thoughts on why I don't see last night as disproving that point are up-thread.

    And while I'd have liked to see AA get a few minutes last night, the fact is that HE IS getting 5-10 minutes in almost every game. Plus, the things he's already providing (good D, being in the right place at the right time) are not things that require him to play all the time in order to maintain or improve on.

    The simple fact about the youngsters on this team is that Amir is THE ONLY ONE who can be argued for as needing some real playing time to improve. Stuckey needs to improve as well because his role is going to be very important, but I maintain that anyone who doubts that he's going to get that PT simply doesn't know what they're talking about. If AA gets more minutes here and there, I'm cool with that because he's already a solid contributor and it's good to reward young guys who play well with more PT, plus it would give a bit of extra rest to Rip and/or CB. But I don't think AA *needs* more minutes to become a more reliable contributor than we've already seen he can be.
     
  12. kpaav

    kpaav Team Captain Forum Donor

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    I feel that last nights game was definitely a "must win." The team has been playing off the charts, but besides some wins in the East and Boston there are few marquee wins in the books. Remember, the last West Coast was a disaster, although injuries played a major factor. Having just lost to Boston at home and then Dallas, the team - particularly the starters - needed to prove to THEMSELVES that they could still hang with the big dogs. Also, this year we have a legitimate 8/9 man rotation with spot minutes galore on most nights. As for Amir, his time may come, but as of right now he is out of the rotation for many good reasons. Mostly his body is not NBA ready and his skills are very RAW. Remember, he was a mid/late second round pick for reasons. People compare him to Bynum and his development, but he was a lottery pick. With all the money put into scouting departments and the draft I have to believe that Amir being on an NBA roster still with a longterm contract means he is on schedule - maybe even exceeding. There are not many teams (especially Championship quality teams) begging for the 12th man to get more burn. Pur starters are the bread and butter, and we go as far as they will take us. Sometimes I think people get so used to them, that they forget how much better they are compared to the bench guys and other players in the league. Don' t take this team for granted, it is arguably one of the best in franchise history.
     
  13. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Dang this was a good thread, I am sorry I was on conference calls all day and didn't turn on my computer, and couldn't get in on the early morning commentary by my conscious D4E and my late night folly Mikhail..

    IMO this was a must win to show somebody that we are one of the best and not some overhyped machine that loses three in a row to three of the four teams that are also in the top five with us.

    The starters were manhandling the Spurs in the first quarter more so than the Mavs were manhandling them the night before. Why stop and sub at that point?? This is the Spurs...the team that travels more than Gulliver!! I have seen them comeback several times down 15+ and win in the end. Burying them far enough where they can't come back was what was needed and believe me they could have comeback if we had had our garbage time squad in there.

    I mean I want to see Stucky and Alf gain experience too, but we are all a little happier that we got that W then seeing our beloveds stumped two nights in a row during the Texas two stop -----on National TV!!!!:sssh:

    If Stuckey's hand and ankle were in pain, then don't force the issue and then he misses another 25 games. Give him a blow..we are counting on him down the stretch. As far as AJ being is street clothes?? Short term we can blame it on the preseason injury but long term blame on that contract hold out this summer. He would not have gained any pounds, but at least he would have 5-6 games under his belt and few weeks of playing with the other rooks and JMAX. I remember questioning this summer why everyone thought he was going to be the savior. The potential is there but....:confused: Flip needs to give him 3-4 mins in the first half so he can play in real time situations, not garabage time...either way he still will not get off of Flips bench in the finals ....when we get there:cheerlie-GOAL:
     
  14. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I think Flip has earned the benefit of the doubt on some of these games. The garbage squad would have been SHREDDED against those guys last night. When the Spurs are missing shots, you don't want to put in your younguns and your below-average defenders and let them find their shot again.

    I like what Sheed says about not getting down about multiple losses in a row, but Flip obviously wanted to win this game. So be it.

    Thanks to all of you who are providing some perspective to those fans who think teal is a British drink.

    GO PISTONS!!!!
     
  15. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Lots of good reading on this one.........

    Someone like Pop has an un-failing belief in his system. He played 12 guys last night and 11 of them played 7 minutes (May be rounded up) or more. Ginobli (28 mins) and Parker (32 mins) played terribly yet there they were down 6 in the 4th with a chance to win. Pop doesn't panic and believes that if they stay the course they have 36 minutes to get into the deficit. Did they play poorly? Yes. Did DET get the lead when the bench was in? Yes again. Was that it for SA for the night? No. Duncan played 40 last night but that didn't mean that only 6 other guys played. They didn't win, but they didn't kill themselves in the process either.

    Our Flip on the other hand does panic. He sees it as some act of God when his team is going well and removing any one of the 5 is going to topple the house of cards. To him, his belief is in his starters plus one or so. Parker's legs would have fallen off last night as Flip tried to trim the lead. It is the total opposite of the above paragraph.

    If you pressure DET bringing he ball up the court it will stop the offense. They're not conserving energy. When pressured they don't get into the offense until 15 seconds at most remain on the clock. By the time they make a pass there is little time left on the shot clock. That is when they force up contested jumpers.
     
  16. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    :p_welldone::cheerlie-GOAL:
     
  17. adonis

    adonis First Round Draft Pick

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    I can't agree more D4E. Had i given the choice of a win or less minutes to the starters, i would definitely take the W. 3 game losing streak and l to the top 3 teams in a row. That would have killed our youngers confidence. They will still have long season to play.
     
  18. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Some stats for the 2 guys you mentioned...

    Amir (8.2 mpg)
    Has played in 22 games. 14 DNP-CD
    Of those 22 games, he has played AT LEAST 5 minutes in 18. (82%)

    Afflalo (12 mpg)
    Has played in 33 games. 3 DNP-CD
    Of those 33 games, he has played AT LEAST 5 minutes in 28. (85%)
    _________________________________

    Other key bench guys...

    Stuckey (15.5 mpg)
    Has played in 11 games. 0 DNP-CD
    Of those 11 games, he has played LESS than 11 minutes only twice. Once was his first game of the season. The other was the Spurs game. I see no trend here.

    Hayes (17.4 mpg)
    Has played in 36 games. 0 DNP-CD
    He has played AT LEAST 10 minutes per game in every single game this season.

    Maxiell (23.4 mpg)
    Has played in 36 games. 0 DNP-CD
    Has played AT LEAST 20 minutes per game in 26 of 36 games. Since the start of December only 4 games less than 20 minutes. 1 because of foul trouble (5 fouls), 2 were blowouts, the other was 19 minutes.

    Let's also compare the starters minutes from last season:

    Hamilton - 34.6 - DOWN from 36.8 (-2.2)
    Billups - 33.6 - DOWN from 36.2 (-2.6)
    Prince - 33.3 - DOWN from 36.6 (-3.3)
    Sheed - 31.5 - DOWN from 32.2 (-0.7)
    McDyess - 30.3 - UP from 21.0 (+9.3)

    ** Dice was not a starter last season but you can compare it to Webber (29.4 mpg) who was starting last season. (+0.9)

    I find nothing that supports the argument that we are not playing the bench.

    This is directed to anyone:

    If you want to make the argument that we don't play Amir enough for your liking, say that.

    But don't try to disguise it behind the notion of 'Flip isn't giving our bench enough minutes.'
     
  19. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    ding ding ding ding

    :thumb:
     
  20. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    nice analysis webz, helps to put things in a little perspective
     

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