Away Indiana Pacers Wednesday, April 02, 2014

Discussion in 'April 2014' started by roscoe36, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    OOOPS..I MEANT
    Nik would be no better than Singler in my eyes. His development would be stunted as he just stands in the corner behind the three point line waiting for the ball (see Trey Burke, 2013). Also, what then do you do with Pope?
  2. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Pistons need an organizational plan. Once the season ends and a new GM is brought in, hopefully someone has a vision of what a true team looks like and how one could go about building one. Adding random pieces with limited skillsets and various warts has proven ineffective.
  3. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I am a Michigan fan but I'd take Gary Harris over Stauskas. We need to build a team that can hold opponents under 100 points.
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Our offensive rating is 20th and our defensive rating is 24th. We need help in both areas.

    Making a higher percentage of shots would result in more half court defensive sets and improved defense. However, improved defense would result in more transition opportunities. It's not clear with one of those improvements would have more of a feedback effect.

    Getting two way players is always a good strategy, but they aren't easy to identify, especially coming out of college since you have to project their abilities to the next level.
  5. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    Not sure what the saddest scenario is - if Loyer has managed to be convinced to tank during his one shot as head coach or if he's actually not tanking with his rotations. He keeps playing the starting five that got the previous coach fired and plays Chaz and JJ as bigs against Hibbert and West.

    If Indy keeps this up they won't make the conference finals.
  6. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Did you even watch the game?

    edit: Oh wait you were commenting about the draft. I think Stauskas will be a liabilty on defense but Harris is the two way player you were talking about. It's time to start discussiong that.
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  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I've never actually watched a full nba game before. I'm more into reading about them.
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  8. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    i havent watch a full Pistons game since......sheesh...
  9. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Of those 10 minutes, how many had CV at center, or Pope at small forward, or JJ at power forward. Which of the ten minutes had 2 or more of these things going on.

    Hey, I got an idea. To make Singler look really good. Get a bunch of elementary kids on 10 days. When Singler is out of the game, play them. Actually, they could not do much worse than what Loyer is using for a bench. Anyway, it would sure make Singler look good if we were minus 20 per minute with Singler out.
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    40 minutes of winning basketball with him on the floor against a contender. Face it, he's not the reason we lost.
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  11. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    You know full well a ship can still manage to move along, even if an anchor is slowing it down. And you know that just because we managed to be plus 2 in Singler's 40 minutes, it does not mean it had anything to do with Singler. Other players did a whole lot of good stuff. Singler? Who was he needed for to defend in this one?
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    You had 6 complaints about the coach either playing guys or playing them out of position. You are stuck in the past. The new nba is positionless. Joe has assembled a collection of guys who can create their own and guard a range of offensive players. You just need to give it time and trust that Loyer has the best analytics dept giving him perfect advice.
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Let me get this right, Singler was + for the game, and we're complaining he wasn't + enough?

    Hang on, I need to get some angels to dance on the head of a pin.
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  14. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    I honestly think we need to hire a lawyer to help the forum record the rules of your use of the +/- statistic. It would be very useful to see the exact methodology which is applied. One minute you say Singler is terrible because he is -x, despite the rest of the team being <-x. The next we are hearing that him being plus while the rest of the team is negative is irrelevant.

    The only way to apply statistics principles in evaluation is by applying them with utter consistency - I work in an actuarial firm now and by god these guys are ruthless when it comes to this stuff (FYI I am not an actuary, I work as a consultant analyst, helping to translate numbers into value add, not actually creating the numbers/PS Roscoe check out my sweet appeal to authority). How effective is a comparison of investment performance of one fund over a day and one fund rolling 10 year averages, when not put into context? Most people would say it is pointless, but I swear I could make it work with some of this +/- usage that I have witnessed.

    Here are some good xkcd comics which I think are definitely related
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    BTW, don't get me wrong Lee, I love everyone on this forum but all of us must eventually accept defeat in the face of overwhelming evidence at some point. Roscoe crushed me a few months ago in an economics argument and I have a B.Ec!!!!! I didn't try to argue that 100 years of economists got price theory discussions wrong, my premise was just too bad from the start.
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  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    My message has been extremely consistent. 1. Singler does not belong in the NBA. 2. The Pistons are tanking with all they have, so Singler playing fits right in with the plan. 3. Bynum does not belong in the NBA. 4. Pope has no business playing small forward. 5. CV has no business in the NBA. 6. JJ has no business playing power forward. 7. We play CV at center, of all places, play JJ at power forward, play Singler and Bynum at all, and play Pope at small forward to ensure losses.

    Do not get lost in the plus minus stuff. That is secondary. But my message is pretty clear on that too, while plus minus certainly is not everything, it is interestesting to talk about both on long term trends (like Daye being our only plus player last year), or any individual player being plus or negative in a particular game. If we are playing a horrid bench, with everyone out there playing out of position, we can expect it to be minus. We should expect our starters to be plus once in a while, especially vs. really bad teams. After all, we start Smith, Jennings, Drummond, and Monroe. Four pretty decent players. It is my opinion though, that our starters vastly underperform, largely due to the fact they have to cover Singler on defense, and so often the other team pays scant attention to Singler when we play offense.

    Just one example, the other day, Singler was unguarded. So he went to the basket, got the ball passed to him, and scored. The announcers immediately said how great Singler was at cutting to the basket, completely ignoring, choosing to be oblivious to the fact, that Singler was not guarded in the first place and their was not real "cut" involved.

    Now Singler does get guarded on occasion, and he does on occasion use a pick to cut to the basket and score. He also hits outside shots, which is why I said at thet outset of the season he could end up being our starting shooting guard. (but after watching his defense this year I decided that no way his outside shooting was worth as bad as our defense was with him in the game.) But who do you suppose the other team really focuses on: 1) Keeping Drums off the offensive board 2.)Keeping Smith from driving 3)Keeping Jennings from getting inside 4)Keeping Monroe from scoring in the post, or 5) Worrying about Singler getting the ball for a shot? I'll give you a hint. Jennings is real quick. Drummond, Smith, and and Monroe are a load to contend with. But this is just the offensive end.

    On defense, everyone has to watch what Singler's guy is doing, because everyone knows Singler can not cover any NBA player. Everyone is either too quick for him, or too strong for him to guard. I imagine that in practice, its about the only thing the team has time to go over.
  16. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    If Kyle Singler played in the Italian League he would probably be MVP.
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He would have no chance of getting laid without a pony tail though.
  18. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'm sure Nemo will soon post a dumb picture of some fake pony tail contraption....
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  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Wasn't really an appeal to authority. An appeal to authority is like this,

    "I am an Actuary, therefore I am right"

    which implies an Actuary could never be wrong about a matter regarding statistics.
  20. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Maybe you should try watching the statistics.

    Sent from outerspace
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