Is Dumars losing the confidence of the fans?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Ozarkruffrider, Jul 7, 2009.

  1. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I believe he's owed in the ballpark of $23 mil over 2 seasons. Thanks, but no thanks.
  2. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Ok. Can we go back and do that with Amir, Darko, every other bench player we had?
    Oh NVM, it only applies in this case. GO CV :cheerleader:


    From people asking me what other players i think we should have went after with the money or saying there were no other options out there.

    CV's talent level and Sheed's talent level are not equal or close. That is my point. As good as CV could become he will never be Sheed at his best or how good Sheed could have been.

    Well then i take it back. If Scott Skiles said it, it must be true.

    I was pointing out that Sheed is a jump-shooting big man who is at this stage a mediocre rebounder, and now CV a jump-shooting big man who's a mediocre rebounder is on the team and the second coming of Hakeem. I spent all year hearing about how we needed a post player, we need a player who's a banger, likes to get dirty in the paint, and now . . . we signed CV and nothing from anyone.

    That was my point in bringing up Sheed in a conversation i was having with Max. It's all right on the previous page.
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    But that is irrelevant because Sheed is long past his best, and the entire universe gave up on Sheed bringing 100%, 100% of the time. It's basically a non-argument. We never had a chance of having ultimate Sheed in 2010.

    CV is a better rebounder than Sheed. There is nothing mediocre about his rebounding numbers. CV rebounds at the same rate as Nowitzki, and only scores a couple points less per 36. He's within a rebound per game of Kendrick Perkins. He outrebounds Tyrus Thomas.

    Again, this is a case of your making a point that is not necessarily so. He's not an elite rebounder, but there are less than 5 elite PF rebounders in the NBA.

    Btw, if you ever saw Hakeem play, you wouldn't make that comparison even in jest, because the people here who have seen Hakeem play, don't make that comparison to any Piston, not even the Dobber.

    We're not done yet, CV is not signed as a banger, he's signed to replace Sheed, and we have Kwame who unlike Amir can defend with his size and feet without fouling.

    Whoever you heard we needed a banger and post player from, I suspect you didn't hear it from Joe. Fans like myself, are largely clueless about how to run an NBA franchise or build a championship team. If we are all really petit savants on our blogs and forums, then it means all of the NBA GMs who have never been to a conference finals must surely be fools for not knowing what we all know.
  4. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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  5. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I'm speaking on potential of what CV could be in terms of us in the future winning a title. It's not really an argument for bringing Sheed back, or how great he is. I'm just using him for comparitive purposes b/c he's the easiest and most known example.

    I'll acknowledge the point on the rebounding b/c i'm not going to go look. He's probably better than i'm giving him credit for, but what we needed IMO was a proto-typical PF/C. Rebounding is a problem for this team. Spending our main amount of money on a big man that's strength is being away from the basket doesn't sit well with me.

    I don't see this, and didn't think that replacing Sheed's offensive type game was really something we needed.

    This is true, and that's what i was talking about when i pointed out all the people who complained constantly about Sheed thrilled about getting a jump-shooting big man. It seems like b/c he's younger all those criticisms don't matter anymore.
  6. max

    max All-Star

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    It would not have been so bad if he was good at it. Sheed barely shot over 40% last year and he has always been atrocious at 3-pt. If you going to get a jump shooting big then at least get someone who can make them.
  7. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    :good: :lock1: :p_welldone: :rockon: :gun1:
  8. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I remember having this argument w/ someone before. He was criticized for taking the threes not not making the threes.

    But it is pointless now. He's an (ugh) Celtic.
  9. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    @lpgrl,

    You want to start from wrong side. You want to start rebuilding by overpaying Posey, Ariza, etc. But pieces as such are added at last resort, because of they are no more than fillers, roleplayers.

    I'm convinced that Ariza fails in Houston as miserabely as Posey did in NO.

    What Dumars tries to do is finding those who are ready to carry team. Gordon has been torch carrier in chitown from day1 and CV31 played from benchplayer to team leader( sort of). yeah, you could argue that they have too many flaws, are not superstars, etc. But who knows? In Detroit they have a chance, at least...

    Please, all those big banging big Dmen either A) are untouchable B) are walking luxury taxes or C) or are simply injury prone, too old.
  10. Blue

    Blue First Round Draft Pick

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    I think the thing with Sheed, at least for me and I'm sure some other fans, was shot selection. I always felt that Sheed's 3-bomb was a nice weapon, but he took it too much and didn't go inside enough. Sheed's break-down according to 82games.com:

    In 2008-2009, Sheed took 11% of his shots inside and 89% from outside. He also attempted 101 free throws.

    Going back to 2005-2006, Sheed took 16% of his shots inside and 84% jumpers. He attempted 136 free throws.

    How about an LB coached year? In 2004-2005, Sheed took 27% of his shots inside and 73% from outside, so a little more aggressive inside. He attempted 136 free throws again in this year.

    Compare that to CV last year: 64% of his shots were jumpers and 36% were inside attempts, and he shot 201 free throws. He also attempted 258 3-pointers versus Sheed's 319 last year.

    So fans that are under the impression that CV plays the same outside game as Sheed might be pleasantly surprised. His distribution still favors outside jumpers, but it appears he is a lot more aggressive about getting into the lane and scoring + drawing fouls than we have ever seen Sheed be as a Piston.
  11. Stun

    Stun First Round Draft Pick

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    I don't think Ariza will fail in Houston but he will look worser then he looked in LA.But yeah they are role players and they are usless if they don't have the right players around them.I don't think CV has the team leader inside himself he's more a Odom/Prince/Josh Smith/Lewis...type a player who can be the leader but doesn't need to.
  12. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    These players and their agents (Odom included) fail to realize that players fit the team. Players such as Posey, Ariza, Odom are complimentary players. Ariza will not be heard from in Houston next year. Posey fit in miami and celtics because he was the 3rd or 4th wheel. When he did not have a good game, it did not kill the team's success. When he had great games, he elevated the team. Same with Ariza and Odom. Agents are just doing their job, trying to get the best possible deal, now the pressure will be on Ariza to perform like the 2nd best player on the team and he will fail.

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