Is Dumars losing the confidence of the fans?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Ozarkruffrider, Jul 7, 2009.

  1. MACKSnare519

    MACKSnare519 First Round Draft Pick

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    Kuester said in the press conference that in Cleveland was the only job where he was 'only' assigned to offensive duties.

    So...become an offensive assistant once and become labeled an "offensive minded" coach. Personally, I would hope he is offensive minded... as well as defensive. We need both, don't we?
     
  2. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    It has nothing to do w/ ideal candidates or even a problem w/ signing an offense only player. It's the lack of balance that annoys me. We don't have the right mix of offense/defense or players that are complimentary to eachother.

    Joe wants BG fine. But shouldn't the other guard be a great defender to offset him?

    Want CV to play PF? Better have a strong defensive center next to him and/or guards that can keep their men out of the lane.

    Joe used to be fantastic at building a team. Now he does things like signing an SG when we have an SG and i don't think it's unlikely that they will both be here. I feel like we just have alot of parts that don't fit together.

    As of now this is what we look like;

    Stuck
    Rip/BG
    Tay
    CV
    Kwame

    I know this team is far away from contending, but that front line right now is going to get murdered by the bigs on other teams.
     
  3. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I read the interview transcipt. Better than expected, but only words right now . . .
     
  4. MACKSnare519

    MACKSnare519 First Round Draft Pick

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    Indeed, only words... Everyone talks a good game. Wouldn't expect otherwise.

    Either way, it'll be interesting to watch what unfolds.
     
  5. Menace

    Menace Bench Warmer

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    Can't be worse then with MC, can it?
     
  6. G-man

    G-man Starter

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  7. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Also with former players too, you do not hear much badmouthing of Joe.
     
  8. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Good read..

    Point-Counterpoint: Joe Dumars has done enough as Pistons general manager to keep his job as long as he wants
    Bill Marshall - It's Just Sports - Mlive

    "As Pistons fans we should feel fortunate that Dumars isn't an arrogant jerk like many other executives, because like every other team president or general manager in every major sport, he makes mistakes. They all make bad trades. They all screw up the draft from time to time. Dumars is a humble man and when he drafted busts like Mateen Cleaves with the 14th overall pick in '00, Darko with the No. 2 overall pick in '02, Rodney White at No. 9 overall in '01, he managed to involve each of them in trades for future first round picks, amazingly."

    Point-Counterpoint: Joe Dumars has done enough as Pistons general manager to keep his job as long as he wants - It's Just Sports
     
  9. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Joe or Kuester (I'm as of right now calling him "Q" for short.)?

    As far as "Q" is concerned, I don't think Larry Brown raises any fools.

    Joe is a little more complex, but let me attempt this analogy-

    I'm not a big chess person, but I know folks that are. When these cats start playing a game, I don't find it very exciting personally when they move Kings Pawn 4 or Queens Bishop 7 or any of that jazz.
    That's just me though. Get a "chess person" in the room and they are talking about "openings", "maneuvers" and "gambits" and all of this stuff that I could care less about. They moved a pawn....big whoop, right? Yea, I already know, in the world of chess I'm wrong. Every move is a potential big move later down the road.

    That's where I see Joe Dumars right now. Folks that aren't really into different cap scenarios and trade possibilities beyond the casual shooting of the proverbial "stuff" aren't too excited at all thus far. Some may even be thoroughly miffed. But the capologists [sic] are giddy with anticipation of Joe's next move.

    Neither side is necessarily wrong at this juncture. Joe might fail bigtime. At the end of the day though, it's all a matter of perspective. The forecast may be uncertain, however, that in no way calls for a rush to Menards for boxes of plastic and duct tape.

    I can't say I didn't see this coming, but come on, It's freakin' July 10th. :)
     
  10. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Exactly how I feel. I have talked about some of them thru the years but have not seen it all so well-laid-out. Good job!!

    That said, I want Joe to "redeem" himself and get things back on track because he is still one of my very favorite players from the past.

    I still do not understand his lack of foresight in hiring Lambs, basically because he KNOWS Bill's absolute winning and not accepting anything less than his team's best efforts. That and his defense wins 'ships teaching makes him very qualified. I have to believe that there is something in their relationship that keeps JD from hiring him.

    Lambs, in my mind, was second in importance only to Isiah, in winning those two 'ships which could have been 4 or 5, with just a little luck.
     
  11. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Just to remind those that shouldn't need reminding....

    If we keep Okur ....Rasheed leaves the Pistons after the '04 season.

    If we keep Corliss ....Antonio McDyess is never a Detroit Piston.

    Our frontline from the summer of '04 until now is Okur and Corliss.

    Talk about a move away from those old defensive days of yesteryear.
     
  12. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    LOL; I'm trying to be offended, but that's actually a pretty good song :)
     
  13. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    That's one way to look at it. On the other hand, Sheed might have stayed for less money, allowing Memo to be kept. That would have opened up playing time for our number 2 pick to learn from some of the best. At least, in my opinion, we would still have a good front line to this day.

    Also, Joe said all along that Memo would not be left out to dry . . . but he was. And we lost at least two of those in between tries because we overplayed our bigs during the season and did not have any gas left in their tanks for the post-season.

    So, we did not win another 'ship during that time, anyway. Might have with a younger, taller front court and still have them now.

    And what about Ben?
     
  14. max

    max All-Star

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    So what's your solution? Because you can't do everything at once. Not sign CV until you can also sign a defensive center? See that's what I mean.

    Who else was out there willing to come here right now?
     
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Sounds good. Memo has about 1,200 more points than Sheed since then and would have saved us $16 Million.
     
  16. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    The question is how far in the playoffs would have Pistons advanced with Okur as as starting center. And possibly all the savings in the salaries would've been lost in gates receipts, souvenirs, refreshments, and other game-related revenues.
    Of course, maybe not, but it's very difficult to judge.
     
  17. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    One person or another has pointed it out on numerous occasions, but I'll take a stab at it again.

    We didn't have Bird rights on Memo. That was Joe's screwup, by not offering him a longer deal at the beginning. I don't blame him entirely though, since up until four months before it was time to resign Memo, we only had one big man and enough money to keep him.

    Then Joe traded for Rasheed.

    It gets dicey after that, because Rasheed's contract put Joe over the soft cap that summer. This means Joe would have had to


    waive Rasheed's Bird rights and the MLE in order to get far enough under the cap to sign Okur, which puts him over the cap and leaves him with a roughly $1 million Vet's minimum to spend- Rasheed wanted more than $1 million


    or,

    sign Rasheed Wallace to the contract he wanted which puts him over the cap and leaves him with a roughly $5 million MLE to spend- Okur also wanted more than the MLE.

    It was one or the other with these guys. Both of them had offers much better than the MLE. Both players made it clear to Joe what they wanted to get paid. For us to insinuate any other option was available to Joe at that time, we'd have to be downright untruthful.

    So it's Okur or Rasheed and an MLE player (this ended up being McDyess). Joe chose Rasheed, who was unarguably the bigger piece of the championship puzzle at the time. Now all Joe has left, if he keeps Rasheed, is a $5 mil MLE deal. Keep in mind though, that if he keeps Memo that $5 mil is gone.

    Which brings us to Corliss. He wanted, and received, the entire MLE. Sure, we could have kept him, but that means Antonio McDyess signs with another team that summer. No McDiggity. Not for us, anyway. And no Okur either, since keeping him takes our MLE away.

    So once again, to make a long story short, it was either Mehmet or Rasheed. Corliss or Antonio. We couldn't have kept either of those guys without losing somebody that was arguably better. Things really get complicated if we keep Okur. If Joe keeps him he loses Rasheed and McDyess.

    Sure, we'd have Ben for the next two years, however, after 06 either we are saddled with his contract and witnessing the decline of his game while injuries get the better of him, or he still goes to Chicago and our frontline is Okur and whoever Joe ended up getting to back Ben and Memo up. They wouldn't be very good that first year, seeing as how it would have to be a player that was only worth $1 million. I guess we can count Darko, but he couldn't hold down a spot with the Memphis Grizzlies. I don't want to be worse than the Grizzlies.

    Mike James was another one that wanted more money than Joe could afford that year. It would have been nice if Okur would have signed a year's extension for the MLE, giving Joe full Bird rights the next year. It would have been nice if Corliss and Mike James would have taken $1 mil vet minimum contracts. But then we're just not being fair to Corliss or Mike, and obviously Memo wasn't willing to play an extra year without the security of a long term, high dollar contract.
     
  18. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    We would have lost McDyess as well.
     
  19. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    I remember at the time Okur walking around with the hang-dog look on his face telling us repeatedly that he wanted to stay. Some of the Euros and others place more importance on winning than money, altho his agent would have had a lot more to say about it.

    As for DMC, the argument goes on and on but I firmly believe that he would be a totally different player today and the seasons leading up to today, had he been handled correctly.

    I know how unpopular this opinion is on the Piston's boards but I still believe it.

    But then, I am old and stubborn.
     
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I have a friend from Asia who only speaks a little english, but he always says, "Old is gold."

    Your stubbornness on the other hand... :D
     

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