Is Flip holding up trades?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Feb 9, 2006.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The fact that Flip has not played much of a rotation or very deep to his bench has me wondering how Joe is supposed to scheme potential roster moves.

    I can see that Darko is sitting, so that may be trade preparation, but almost everytime Arroyo plays recently, I get the feeling that he is losing value. Remember, we gave up Elden Campbell's expiring deal and a first round pick for Carlitos.

    Evans, Delfino, the rookies all have negligible value as does Hunter.

    The only other bencher with some worth is Dale Davis.

    But Flip's not playing the 3 possible trade candidates effectively, or in the case of Arroyo, in a situation where he can shine. I mean, we know Carlos isn't a bad PG, and yet the difference in his play and Billups is tremendous. This system does not favour him.

    Is it Darko that has to move? A 2 fer 1 with Davis for a higher priced big?

    Will Joe take a gamble and make a move for the future like Darko for first round pick and expiring deal, or Arroyo & Davis for Nene?

    These are the PGs rumoured to be on the block with their approximate salary.

    Earl Watson - $5 million this year, under contract until 2009/10
    Jamal Crawford - $6.4 million this year, player option until 2010/11
    Brevin Knight - $4.6 million this year, under contract until 2007/8
    Steve Francis - $13.7 million, under contract with player option for 2008/9 season ($17.8 million)

    And here are some interesting names, under the radar somewhat.

    Tony Delk (ATL) - Expiring deal, 3.38 million this year.

    Drew Gooden from Cleveland is available, as G-man has pointed out a couple times. $4 million, last year of rookie deal, next year's qualifying offer is approx. $5.3 million

    Voshon Lenard is also being shopped by Denver. Expiring deal, $3.5 million this year.
     
  2. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    no. because no trades are going to be made. the only players we have of high value are our youth. you trade away your youth and the team gets old really quickly. joe is building for today and the future.

    nene is a headcase. you think he's want 6 minutes behind ben, sheed, mcdyess??

    b. knight for arroyo is the only trade that makes any sense.
     
  3. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    i'd love to trade arroyo and darko for snow and gooden, but there's no reason for cleveland to trade with us like that. although knight is weird looking i wouldn't mind him on the team either, but i can't see charlotte trading vet point guards when that's why they'd be trading knight in the 1st place. watson is tough because of his contract size through the next few years.

    not sure if flip is holding up trades...if darko and arroyo play less, their trade value won't go up, but it won't go down much either.

    anyone else remember right after the arroyo trade last year, that people were saying he would takeover chauncey's spot as our main PG? yah that was funny :) i also have no problem trading arroyo and not getting a PG back, and just letting acker play.
     
  4. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    there no reason for us to trade a talented young point guard. for another aging defense first point guard. we already have one of those in lindsey. gooden wouldn't play over mcdyess, sheed or ben. would he be happy with 5 minutes a game??

    a darko, ilgaskus (sp), lebron frontline isn't something the pistons want to see in the east in the near future.

    yes. i remember. that was arroyo coming into the game and just playing his game. we started racking up the assists and it pushed chauncey to start throwing dimes too in my opinion. arroyo is a great player he just doesn't fit into flips system right now. flip needs to play a style of play that fits his point guards skills when arroyo is in the game. he shouldn't just try to have arroyo mirror what chauncey does.
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The Bobcats drafted Felton. He's their PG of the future and starting to come into his own.

    Watson's contract is not that bad. It's also CB insurance for his negotiations in 2 years. In fact, Watson's just a little more expensive than Arroyo.

    I think that would be a good deal, but I don't know why Charlotte would swap PGs straight up. Darko or Davis would have to go into the deal.

    If I get time, maybe I can check to see if Arroyo & Evans for Gerald Wallace and Knight would work.

    Joe has been a trader almost every year. I'd be hesitant to say that nothing will get done. It's obvious that Arroyo has fallen out of favour, and you can't afford to keep $12+ million in salaries (Davis, Darko, Arroyo) sitting on the bench. Something has to give.

    I'm all for looking ahead, but this team was built on trades and FA. The only notable draft picks under Joe have been Prince and Memo. I think he's a better evaluator of veteran talent.

    Joe's gotta be careful about looking too far ahead. He could miss an opportunity now. No one remembers second place.
     
  6. max

    max All-Star

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    Perhaps we should trade one of the starters for couple of bench players so everyone can finally stop complaining about the bench.
    Do you want quality starters ( who only average 36 MPG ) or platoon out a position or 2 using a couple of non-starters at 20 some mins apiece?
     
  7. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    I saw Flip with a rifle up in the book depository!
     
  8. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    heh which reminds me, everyone should read bill simmons's latest nba article for espn page2, it's pretty funny. when talking about portland he says they lead the league in 'most random guys who could play 15-20 mins off the bench for the pistons' :laugh:
     
  9. bricalz

    bricalz First Round Draft Pick

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    Hehe.

    Well with those players I say Brevin Knight would be a great trade.

    Along with the expiring contract,

    and hmm, i think Earl watson would be OK too, if Denver deals
     
  10. max

    max All-Star

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    There you go! We can pick on Prince since he is the only starter to not make the all-star team. Trade Prince for a couple of bench scrubs and use a 3-headed monster at the 3. You want a 10-guy rotation? That would give us 11. Delfino+2 scrubs = bench problems solved. Probably would not beat SAN in the finals but at least it would give us a pretty mean bench.
     
  11. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    I'm not so sure Arroyo is "losing value." I think other teams know what he can do, and would have no problem acquiring him. Flip's system might not be a good fit for Arroyo, but he can't blame Flip for all those bricks he keeps throwin up. This guy has made some fantastic one-on-one moves, frozen defenders in their tracks, broken free and then missed the dam layup.:frusty:

    OTOH, Darko's azz on the bench is the best way to keep his trade value up!:) Keep em guessing and convince somebody to bite. Smart move, IMO.:nod:
     
  12. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    isn't it funny how the team that darko did finally play some major minutes against tried to call joe and give up thier best player for him. it just so happens that it's a former coach. people in the league already know darko's tremendous upside. it only takes 1 coach and the right situation for him to turn into the next j o' neal. i think he'll be better than j oneal one day.
     
  13. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    From Bball-jay

    Why so much infatuation with JO? Spain to me why he can't be the next Dwight Howard, or Nene, or Amare, or Gasol, or Kaman, or....

    You get the idea.
     
  14. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Because of the situation. JO didn't do jack in his first 4 season. Also, coincidentally, behind Rasheed Wallace. Then he gets traded to Indy (for Dale Davis), and blows up into an instant 20/10 guy.
     
  15. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    Darko is no JO. This kid ain't blowin up in 4 years. At this pace he's at least another 3-4 years away! And that's IF he has that warrior mentality (doubtful). :ohwell:

    JO may have been "raw." But he always played with heart, and he took advantage of opportunities. But like JO; Darko's best opportunitiy seems to be somewhere else. Might as well get something for em.:fingerscr
     
  16. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Good players go strong and act strong... you can hide behind "skilz" for so long.
     
  17. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Well, Darko is like Tayshaun in that you wouldn't have any clue whether he's playing "with heart" or not. Unfortunately, it's not everyone's personality to be KG out there screaming and pounding his chest. I think a large part of the problem is that once we got to the regular season his minutes were drastically cut and his leash was pulled as tight as can be. That's when he got back into the situation of "if you screw up, you're benched". Then he goes from playing "with heart" to just trying not to screw up. And when you think too much, bad things happen.
     
  18. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    Yeah yeah....sounds like some mo excuses to me. :violin:

    His minutes were not cut just to be mean to him. Nor were they cut for any "mistakes" he made. They were cut because he SUCKED. :attention
     
  19. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Trust me, I am not one of these "Darko fans" that blindly follow him. I want him to succeed because I don't feel like tossing away the "Wade or Bosh" pick on Kelvin friggin Cato. That will just make this organization look worse than it already does with that pick. I still think he can be salvaged. He's not going to be great, but he could be pretty decent. His jumpshot has looked good lately, and he's giving more effort. It's a move in the right direction. But letting him rot, then trading him for garbage is not going to help us any.

    And FWIW, most of the things he did that made you say he "sucked" earlier in the season were mistakes. You shouldn't be suprised to see a guy who has less career playing time than rookies look like they "suck" on occassion. Hell, Arroyo looks like absolute garbage every other night. Darko did some good things, and he did some not so good things. You aren't going to get rid of those bad things without giving him a couple extra minutes. And it certainly can't hurt to give Ben and extra 4-5 minutes of rest per game.
     
  20. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    I agree Ben needs some more rest. I also believe we need a 4th big (besides Davis) to deliver a hard foul now and again. Darko ain't that guy.

    I'm not specifically pushing Cato. But truth be told, Cato may not be "all that" but he ain't exactly a scrub either. If Orlando thows in a 1st rounder, this may not be as bad a trade as you think.

    If Darko is moved, there will be plenty of time to cry about it after the parade.
     

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