Is it time for Gores to blow up the organization from the top down?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Laimbrane, Jan 5, 2014.

  1. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    I mean, I don't want to totally overreact, but they got pounded today by a Memphis Grizzlies team that was missing two of their best players, after a full week off.

    This was supposed to be a strong defensive squad, but they are one of the worst in the league. Offensively, they lack cohesion, flow, chemistry, and efficiency. Defensively they don't communicate, are late to help, don't play hard, and can't stay in front of their man.

    It all starts at the top. Joe gets full marks for putting together a championship squad, but the last major roster move he made in that direction was almost ten years ago (Sheed). Since Larry Brown won the championship, we've seen Flip Saunders, Michael Curry, John Keuster, Lawrence Frank, and now Maurice Cheeks. Literally, the coaches this team has had have gotten worse every hire. I shudder to think what complete imbecile Dumars is going to find once Cheeks is gone.

    Speaking of Cheeks, this ship is rudderless. There's talent on the floor - no denying that. Drummond is a monster, Monroe is a very good post player, Smith is a good post player and passer (and allegedly a good defender), KCP is a good defender and has a good shot, and Jennings is quick and clearly has point guard quality skills. But the starting squad, which has all this talent, does absolutely nothing with it when it counts. And then, off the bench the coach brings in guys that have no idea what to do with the ball when they get it. Fourth quarters are getting worse and worse as opposing teams realize that the players have absolutely no direction. They're playing a throwback game, lobbing it into the post and clearing out, but without having any actual threats on the perimeter to keep opposing defenses honest.

    The worst part about it? The team is 14-20, but they're still in the playoffs because there are about 8 other teams in the East officially mailing in the season, and if the Pistons don't get a top-8, they get no pick in one of the deepest drafts in years because Dumars felt it was better to give away a draft pick to get rid of Ben Gordon (his outside shooting would look pretty nice right about now, tho). They have the talent to actually make some noise in the first round, since they kind of match up well against the Pacers and Heat, but they are dead in the water otherwise.

    I just have this feeling that, given his recent history, Dumars is going to re-up Stuckey's contract and blow the rest of their cap space by overpaying Monroe, a guy that is a defensively limited 15-8 player whose skills are not considered as valuable to most teams as they once were, a guy who would be a very good sixth man on a championship team.

    I do not want to see this happen. I do not want to see the Pistons mired in mediocrity for the rest of the decade because they failed to adapt to the new way of things. Organizations are too smart now, the numbers guys are finally starting to quantify what's important, and the Pistons are a dinosaur. They have overrated talent based on old-school thinking that still puts priority in all the wrong areas (points, rebounds, steals, and blocks). They have a coach that does not break down game film. They have a GM that has publicly said that the concept of positions is obsolete, that teams are built by getting the best talent and fitting it together however you can.

    This regime is done. The Hydra experiment didn't work, and it's getting worse. I don't know what Gores is thinking, but I hope he acts sooner rather than later. I feel like the team stands at a crossroads right now, and I don't like the dark paths that lay ahead.
     
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  2. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Great post Laimbrane.....I concur with all of your points. To have a week off and comeback to play one and half quarters of bball doesn't cut it. I heard that Cheeks had a team meeting right after the game.....what were they doing the whole week? They had 3 or 4 days to watch every bad game they played the in the past week, break it down by each flawed play and work on correcting it.

    Yep our D is real bad....even in the games we have won. But the offense is turrible when it comes to expecting anything off the bench and when the starters are force to take bad shots to offset the D. We scored 28 points in the second half.....after logging 27 in the first qtr and 29 in the second qtr...and probably two of the best defensive players in the league in Gasol and Tony Allen didn't even play.
     
  3. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Ugh, I am happy I didn't watch that game.

    When Lionel Hollins and George Karl don't have jobs, you hope that the guy you hire is something special. Seems our hope was terribly misplaced.

    Meanwhile, Hornacek is making the Suns look uptempo and fantastic - competing every night despite being worse than the other team, Shaw has made the Nuggets looks even a quarter decent even with injuries and a squad devoid of talent. Mike Budenholzer gave the Hawks an identity and they looked good until Horford went down. Brad Stevens is looking the part of the guy to lead the Celtics back to glory with patience and great tactics with probably the greatest dearth of talent in the league.

    Look, I can understand taking a punt on a new coach (Hornacek/Stevens/Shaw/Budenholzer) but why Cheeks? All of those four came from winning pedigree and were recognised as part of it (Shaw/Budenholzer/Stevens), understood the game very well (all of them) and could get respect from the players (Hornacek). And this is before we begin to discuss X's and O's. Cheeks is a flop. Period. I've defended Joe a lot of times but I won't here.

    We should have hired Laimbeer, Hollins, Karl or any of the four I mentioned above, but nobody thought to look into them, or they didn't want to come here because the team is poorly run. Unacceptable.

    A team needs talent, effort, vision and tactics to win. We have talent and a bit of effort but nothing else, so that explains why we are sitting at .300 odd.

    I don't think we match up well with either of those teams. They are both simply better than us. We don't have the defensive intensity to slow the Heat and we can't buy a bucket against Indiana. The only supposedly top team (which isn't a top team) we match up well against is Brooklyn, and since they look like they are going to be a 7 or 8 seed, we won't see them anyway.

    Monroe needs to be traded. Or Sign&Traded. I don't care which. Money needs to be spent getting a wing player who doesn't stink.

    This is a trade which makes sense for both teams
     
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  4. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Lambraine,

    good post. You are saying what I am sure many Piston fans are worried about. This wasn't suppose to be a lottery year. Right now, the team is drifting in that direction. How many teams in the NBA have had back to back games with 11 point quarters this year? And the defense is not much better than the offense.

    What is even more worrisome is that the last two games had the effort---but players often look lost out there. And so the result for that effort was not there.


    As far as personnel, most of the bench is not productive. Take your pick. The only productive player, Stuckey, doesn't fit all that well with the first unit.

    And then you have Monroe. He should be dominating some games by now. Hasn't happened.

    And then you have the youth factor (Drummond and Pope but also Jennings to some extent and even Monroe to some extent).

    You have near the worst 3 point shooting team in a league where the 3 ball rules.

    You have near the worst free throw shooting.

    As you say, players do not stay in front of their man on defense.

    The team doesn't even rebound all that well when the other team steps up.

    You see very little apparent preparation for opponents and in game adjustments by the bench.
     
  5. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    All of sudden everyone hates Monroe's game, but didn't want Cousins because he had a semi-Sheed attitude....

    I think in Chat today, Bill Laimbeer advised that Cheeks was hired just hours before the Grizz decided to let Hollins go. You have to wonder if Phil Jackson, er I mean Dumars, Gores would have considered Hollins had he been available??
     
  6. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I seriously doubt anything will happen during this NBA season, but you would think Gores is getting frustrated. Perhaps Joe D will get his walking papers come May.
     
  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    We are not that far from an awesome team. Just got to quit playing guys who can not play in this league. Find, well, anybody really, to replace CV, Datome, Bynum, Billups, JJ, and Singler. Get them from the D League, get them from overseas, from the free agent list, from the undrafted players from the last few years. Find people who can bring some NBA skills, particularly defense. Pretty much any players will most likely be better than what Dumars has come up with at this point.

    What we have left after these 6 are gone: Jennings, Pope, Smith, Monroe, Drummond.

    And Stuckey, Siva, Mitchell, and Harrellson.

    Last game, since Stuckey was injured, we would have used Siva as the backup point, Mitchell to spell both Smith and Monroe, while Harrellson comes in to spell Drummond. And we would have won the game. Why, each of Siva, Mitchell, and Harrrellson, regardless of any flaws they do have, bring energy into the game. Energy we sorely needed.
     
  8. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    We lack decent guard play. If you want to old school with a big fronline- fine, but you need guards to complement them. Guys that can handle the ball (and I'm not just talking about dribbling), pass and shoot. With a healthy and productive Rodney Stuckey I believe that this is a .500 team.......and while that may sound good right about now,,,it isn't. I think Joe has clearly proven that he doesn't have it anymore and as a guy who REALLY likes Joe.....that saddens me, in order to save his job I think Joe HAS to make a trade that gets us into the playoffs with a winning record or he will be fired this summer along with Mo Cheeks.

    Said trade should accomplish the following:
    (1) Get us a G/F
    (2) Bring about financial flexibility......No Rudy Gay type contract
    (3) Get Jonas off the books too.
     
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  9. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    They already have Kanter and Favors.....won't happen. Also, look at Hayward's shooting %'s you want to add another player to our starting lineup that struggles to shoot 40% from the floor?

    Here's one I would do in a heartbeat! While moving Drummond to the bench.
    NBA Trade Machine - ESPN
     
  10. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    You want to give up Monroe for an expiring?
     
  11. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm not making any move unless I can move Drummond to the bench also. I don't care if they trade for Eric Montross.
     
  12. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    You are going to have to give up a lot to land a player like Montross...
     
  13. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I want to get Jonas' $4.5M off the books. It opens the team up to get 2 VERY good players
    I want to get Jonas off the books this year.
     
  14. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Who would you go after with $4.5?
     
  15. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Sammy Mejia
     
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  16. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I
    It would be extra money to use THIS summer, and we could definitely solidify the roster, it's the difference in being able to offer a guy $5.5M or $10m.
     
  17. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The difference between Jonas Jerebko and Charlie Villanueva.
     
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  18. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    You win!
     
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  19. max

    max All-Star

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    I would go with Middleton - look how he has turned arouund Milw season.
     
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  20. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If the coach used better rotations, maybe Milwaukee wouldn't have the worst record in the NBA.
     

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