Is Jason Next?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by dozero, Jul 13, 2009.

  1. The Palace Artest

    The Palace Artest First Round Draft Pick

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    Tay will be completely expendable by July of 2010.

    That's my prediction. He now has someone who

    • is much younger
    • taller
    • skinner
    • more skilled
    • has smaller luggage
     
  2. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Boozer for one year would be fantastic. Trial run. Especially if we give up pratically nothing.
     
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    But it's not possible to give up practically nothing. Don't dream, construct the trade.

    Plus, if we get Boozer (or any other expiring), and his 12 million comes off the books next year, we get $5 million in cap space because the cap is expected to fall $7 million.

    We couldn't even manage to re-sign him, without taking ourselves out of free agency all together and putting our nose to the tax level.

    That means we only have the MLE to shop with, and have no advantage in free agency whatsoever. We would have no more buying power than anyone else. It would be like being capped out.

    That is why Chandler and Boozer are both terrible, unless we intended to re-sign them. And why would we do that? They are both overpaid in today's market, and of the two, Boozer is the last guy you can trust with a long term contract.
     
  4. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    By practically nothing i mean anything outside of our "core players".

    If we got Chandler completely different story. He's someone i do believe we should and want to resign and possibly at a discounted price since takers for him at that value are not going to be numerous. I'm not even sure his contract expires next season anyway.

    With Boozer i didn't realize that there would be that little left which definitely dampens my enthusiasm about that tremendously but i really like the idea of getting to see him for one year before having to commit. So i'm assuming it works better if we can do an almost Rip/Boozer or Prince/Boozer straight up which is unlikely unless that POR/DET/UTAH deal really was/is a possibility.

    But hey the MLE next year could get us another Charlie Villanueva!

    edited to add;

    So what is Joe clearing cap space for ?
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Right, which is daydreaming.

    No one in the new NBA is going to pay a defensive player $12 million dollars a season. I think his option year he makes $13.5 million. When the MLE could fall to $4.5 that would make him paid 3 times the average salary. He's simply not worth it, and it means 2 of your top 12 guys on the team have to make almost nothing to offset it, so you have no veteran depth and good luck if you want to carry 15 players.

    You would have to give up just as much for Chandler.

    Joe is not going to trade Rip or Tay for cap space next offseason. The space will be eaten up by the falling cap, and he will have dumped them for nothing. Even if he does it for Boozer, and wants to re-sign him, he will then take his team out of free agency for as long as Prince is under contract or longer if it is Rip that stays. That means you have a permanent starting lineup of Stuckey, Rip or Tay, Bengo CV and Boozer.

    Is that your championship lineup?

    How can you offer any criticism if you don't know the answer to this?

    That is the entire point of my posts to you this morning. You're making critiques, but you can't construct the trade you are upset Joe is not making. Sorta like accusing the new coach of not having any experience when he wears a Detroit Pistons championship ring. :rolleyes:

    Joe is clearing cap space to make a move NOW. I think it may be Bosh. I hope it is. He's a legitimate franchise player, neither Boozer nor Chandler are. Worst case, I hope we get Amare. Joe is looking to do something big.
     
  6. max

    max All-Star

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    I don't even think Chandler is a very good defender. He gets rebounds and that's about it.

    If it was a 1 year deal but he is on the books for 2 more years at a very high price and there is no guarantee that he will even be healthy next year. Maybe he would even flunk the trade physical again.
     
  7. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Roscoe seems to be the voice of reason here past couple of days. People, you should actually pay attention to what he's saying.
    :hoops:
     
  8. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Ok. I'll go back to waiting for Joe to work this top secret deal for Bosh.

    In your opinion he isn't. The price tag is steep, but not long and we need a center. He happens IMO when healthy to be a pretty damn good one.
    So what's your solution?
    No but one built around Ben Gordon, CV, and players to be named later is super!

    I'm asking you what you think he's clearing space for.

    Also i've stated numerous times that i'm unhappy with the signings and stating options we had before we used the cap space b/c ppl are asking me who i thought he should have spent the money on.

    And kindly point out to me where i'm accusing John Kuester of lack of experience. I would love to re-read that.

    I hope he's looking to do something big, but it's just as likely he's going to use the remaining space to sign a mediocre big.

    Bosh has been all over the papers/his twitter praising the Raptor's recent signing(s). Amare has just come out stating he loves the Suns moves and the old suns are back and going to show everbody they can be back on top. Not that that means they can't/aren't going to be traded, but . . .
     
  9. pistonsfan

    pistonsfan First Round Draft Pick

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  10. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Amen, that's why I luv the guy. He and Cloud always seems to put things back into perspective for this whole salary cap, signing, non-signing stuff.
     
  11. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    r36 has me geeked about a potential big trade going down. I am crossing my fingers hoping for Bosh, but it's hard to consider that a possibility. Franchise players only come along once in a while, hard to see the Raptors giving him up.
     
  12. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    If anything Bosh-related happens,it happens in trade deadline: Colangelo still hopes to extend Bosh and in case of Bosh disagrees, at trade deadline Colangelo could get something better...by trade deadline there will be more teams with need to ease salary burden.
     
  13. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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  14. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Thanks M.

    I might not have been holding hands and singing Kumbayah, or being coolly aloof to the discussion, because I am actually pumped up right now, but back in the day, we did the knowledge. We would all rush around to Patricia Bender's site or DougStats to get salary and performance info, to try and figure out the CBA when fan reporting and analysis was in it's infancy. There is a solid tradition among many on this board of being fairly tuned in, and that's a great thing to spread to everyone on the board, because the more people that are tuned in, the more meaningful and creative everyone's contributions become.

    So if I have been over the top, I apologize. But it is possible to remove most of these goofy rumours just by a thoughtful analysis of the cap situation. We can't get players for almost nothing. Other teams are not going to give us players for our junk. The money has to make sense, this year, AND NEXT YEAR.

    Bosh is a possibility. It can work. Will it? Who knows. I kinda hoped Big Baby would already be re-signed so Joe would have limited options. He's going to have a helluva time selling tickets to see this squad as is. Particularly if they don't win.

    In my opinion, now is the time to strike. If the cap falls again next season, the famous class of 2010 will be the biggest non-event in NBA history since the drafting of Darko.
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    But less teams that can take salary on. Everyone will be terrified to trade for big extended salaries with the cap falling. We are in the unique position of being able to do so, because we actually have cap room and our young players are locked up for several seasons to come with the exception of Stuckey, whom we have the rights to pay regardless of the cap.
     
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    He's a classic case of playing beyond his rookie contract, which is not hard to do because rookie deals are so low. But paying him 3 or 3.5 times as much, is he such a roster value now? Can he exceed his current play by 1.5 or 2 times? Those are definitely the pertinent questions.

    And the fact he excelled in a low pressure role surrounded by a lot of talent.
     
  18. Latinoking90

    Latinoking90 Bench Warmer

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  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    He's overpaid when the cap drops $10 million over two seasons. We can pick up 80% of that kind of player, for 50% of the price. That is how this team will be rebuilt. Joe is not going to get anyone at peak value, unless they are a franchise player, and Chandler is not a franchise player.

    I'm not proposing solutions. I'm analyzing options.

    I spent the better part of the day answering this IN DETAIL yesterday.

    I don't know what he is doing, I know what he can do. Obviously, he is clearing space to improve the team, because next offseason, he will have no cap space and cannot make the moves he can make right now. Which I believe, is why he is trying to wring blood from a stone, because Oberto is exactly the kind of contract he would keep in the past, but now he's willing to eat 50% on the dollar, to have a few more pennies to shop with, obviously because he believes every penny of purchasing power counts.

    I know. We all know. You've been stating how unhappy you are for almost two years. It's like when we get a young guy on the team who has any size and speed, we know Lee is going to adopt him. Likewise, whatever personnel changes Joe makes, you are going to almost universally dislike. It doesn't even matter if he addresses something you dislike, you are going to dislike the solution more than the disease.

    You claimed Q was a coach getting us further from our roots (whatever those are) because he has a background as an offensive [sic] coach.

    Which was shown to be wrong.

    He was the most qualified candidate, with the most familiarity with our front office and "problem" personnel (aka Rip) and the perfect price tag.
     
  20. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    at the start of the season everyone hopes that everything goes well. By trade treadline some dreams have been crushed: some drafts are bust, some trades did not give desired results, injuries, some FA hirings are dissapointments. For some GM all it may be a sign that in spite of previous effort it is time to start retooling: that's how Lakers got Gasol. And this retooling GM is Colangelo's hope for Bosh trade if he has to; read: get better player for Bosh's expiring than for instance, Rip. I'm afraid that for Colangelo Dumars is not desperate enough.
     

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