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Is this team better than last year's?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Lee356, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    By far worse. No question. We started last year with Billups on the team, arguably the best point guard in the league despite the aging. And it was a perfect situation. Stuckey was going to take a lot of minutes, and Billups was going to be well rested for the playoffs. Dumars ruined it all in the name of who knows what. CV? Gordon? Hah. Bad move. Dumars tried to swindle us into thinking AI was going to replace Billups, but it did not happen. Some of us with half a memory still know what happened - we basically gave Billups away.

    More recently, Dumars, in his infinite stupidity, decided to give two of our best defenders away. In the name of what? Cap space to add players. But wait, what players. Wilcox? Is Wilcox going to start playing defense this year?

    We did get Big Ben Wallace back, for cheap too. This is one move I like, though I fear this rookie coach is going to try to lean on Ben too heavily - and just wear him out to uselessness soon. I do hope this coach has half a brain, and uses Wallace to compliment the other players, not as a starter of a super sub who plays starters minutes.

    But again, who still has half a memory left? Sure, I thought we used Dyess way wrong. Still, Dyess was a good solid player. With a decent coach playing this older vet spare minutes off the bench, Dyess can be a very valuable palyer. Anyone notice though, he ain't around. And Sheed, a guy who Curry totally mismanaged last year, trying to make him play like a 20 year old at his ripe old age. This was stupidity by Curry, followed up by stupidity by Dumars letting Sheed go sign cheap with someone else.

    Lets review. Sheed, Billups, Amir, Afflalo, and Dyess all gone. Five players who either started for us last year or will start for his new team this year. In return? Unproven rookies. And an older Ben Wallace, Charlie Villanueva, Ben Gordon, and Wilcox.

    Cap space move after cap space move, and never anything in return at the end for all the cap space moves. Since we won it all in 2004, all Dumars has done is tear the team down in the name of cap space. He needs to go if the Pistons are to ever have another winning season.
     
  2. discotom

    discotom First Round Draft Pick

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    He redeveloped the base because our base crumbled two years ago. There was nothing left in the tank. Just because these guys go and have successful seasons elsewhere does not mean they would have been successful here. The players that are gone needed to go. Tay and Rip will have better seasons because of it.

    Are they better than last year? Not on talent level, no. But this team has something that we did not have for the past two years: potential.

    Now that we have a young, athletic base, we will be able to attract more upper-level talent. If we kept the same team as last year, we would have crumbled further and become even more unattractive. We were not going to win with last years team ever again.

    As far as a rebuilding year goes, this is one of the most intriguing I have ever seen. We now have a solid (not spectacular) base, and some tradeable pieces when teams start to worry about the trade deadline.
     
  3. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Hi, thanks for your response. I am just going to comment on the "base" part of your post. No point guard. No decent center. No backup small forward. No defense. Some base. 30 wins max.
     
  4. Blue

    Blue First Round Draft Pick

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    I think we'll be pretty much the same performance-wise. Last year we were 39-43 with an 8th seed finish and a first round exit. I predict we could very much end up with the same performance this year. Having said that, some things will be way better.
    • Curry vs. Kuester. Q has a way better resume than Curry did. I think there's very little debate that the coaching will be better this year.
    • Age. Last year had a lot of older players on the team. This year we are younger with a lot of upside, energy, and hustle.
    • Value. Last year we had to make a trade to avoid the lux tax. This year we start the season about at the salary cap. There are way more options for moves to be made.
    • Most importantly, the royalty of the old core has been broken up. Last year the players clearly had no respect for the coach. We heard reports of Rip openly defying Curry in the first month of play. It was essentially a player coached team, and it was broken. This year, we have all new young faces that are hungry and have something to prove. Some want better contracts, and some want to prove the naysayers wrong. This is exactly the mentality that made the original core great, and it is exactly what they gradually lost over time. I'm excited that we will be getting back to that.
     
  5. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Reality Check...

    Let's review last years team, Detroit finished the season 39-43 then got blown out in round 1. Iverson and Sheed both quit on the team.

    Here are the team rankings for the 2008/2009 season. This is the actual roster performance which you apparently think was better than the promise or potential of this years roster.

    • Team Offense, Detroit was 28th only two teams scored fewer points.
    • Team Defense, Detroit was 8th holding the opposition to 94.7
    • Team Scoring Differential, Detroit was 17th at 0.-5
    • Team FG% Differential, Detroit was 14th at 0.004
    • Team FG%, Detroit was 18th shooting 0.455
    • Team FT%, Detroit was 24th shooting 75%
    • Team Defensive FG%, Detroit was 8th at .451
    • Team 3Pt%, Detroit was 27th knocking down 34.9%
    • Team Rebounding Difference, Detroit was 10th at +1
    • Team Personal Fouls, Detroit was 19th at 20.8 per game
    • Team Assisits, Detroit was 16th at 20.6
    • Team Steals, Detroit was 29th taking just 6 a game away
    • Team Turnover Differential, Detroit was 15th at 0.04
    • Team Assist Differential, Detroit was 15th at 0.44
    • Team Turnovers, Detroit was 2nd at 11.2 per game
    • Team Blocks, Detroit was 19th at 4.61
    If you go look at the Top 10 NBA players for each of those standard categories, the Pistons had not a single showing. Add Team Technical Fouls and we get 1 guy that made that list,

    • Rasheed Wallace at #2 with 17.
    Last I looked C. Billups wasn't on last years team except for 2 games. You can't logically include him in your analysis.

    You're conflating your Dumars disgust with the teams performance on the floor and they are two separate items.

    In the prior two seasons you attacked Coach Saunders schemes the same as you complained about everything Coach Curry, that's a "net-net" argument.

    The "team" has to be looked at relative to it's performance on the floor. Each of those individual players received a fat paycheck to go out and give 110% regardless of who is suiting up next to him. They made that agreement with Dumars and the club when they signed their individual contracts.

    This years team hasn't even played a single exhibition game together so it's a little unfair to be assembling an August "Death Panel" in their honor.

    Last years team was mediocre at best. If you like descending mediocrity, keep defending last years roster, which by the way would be a year older this season.

    I'm really tired of hearing about Amir, he got his chance with multiple coaches in multiple years and he sucked. He couldn't stay out of foul trouble. He lacked personal discipline. Hopefully as he matures he finds more discipline and the officials find more patience, the best thing that could've happened in his career did, he got traded. If anyone in here really cared about his game they'd be happy he's getting another chance elsewhere. Sometimes things just don't fit. It's not a personal indictment of his effort (we save that for the dogging, listless, no integrity Darko).

    I'm not even going to go into why we couldn't re-sign Sheed or Dyess as Roscoe and others have covered it ad nauseum.. either you don't understand the CBA rules governing the game and how they effect teams, or you ignore it as it detracts from your non-stop personal attack on Dumars..
     
  6. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: Reality Check...

    Dumards got paid to show up and give his "best" also, yes?
     
  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Re: Reality Check...

    Not even going to start arguing basketball with you. Neither of us thinks the other knows anything about the game of basketball, so its kind of pointless. You have a great day.
     
  8. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Lee, I'd like to see you respond to G-man's post by refuting the facts he presented and not merely spouting off some general statements about us needing a Center...blah blah blah. True. There is need for a lot of improvement. Cliche alert: Rome wasn't built in a day.

    Seriously, if you think it is so easy to build a team then I challenge you to join the pf.com expert fantasy league. Winning that is a great challenge and that is still a thousand times easier than what Dumars faces. It's one thing to KNOW what is needed and quite another to OBTAIN the necessary pieces.
     
  9. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    Dumars has THREE Championship rings on his fingers. As of my recall, LEE and all of us combined have NONE!

    Good post,G-Man.
     
  10. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Re: Reality Check...

    Lee, that is very weak and a total cop out. :(
     
  11. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    Re: Reality Check...

    typical.....off to an early start..and a typical early exit.:pound:
     
  12. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Wasn't it rumored that Rip Hamilton quit on the team and faked an injury right after the Billups trade?

    Based on reports from the papers, the only player mentioned as being openly mutinous was the captain, Rip Hamilton.
     
  13. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Re: Reality Check...

    Yes he did. But the difference is he;
    A. He can't suit-up.
    B. His job is to plan long-term and hope it pays off short-term
    C. His planning had us in 6 straight ECF appearances
    D. His planning helped us win one title and play for another
    E. Like anyone else, he can make mistakes
    F. He knows he'll be around long after many of the fair-weather fans and plans accordingly - go figure

    So, no matter how much negative chatter you spill, he's already proven he walks the walk and talks the talk.

    While all some of ya'll have proven is you don't or won't attempt to comprehend the bigger picture which is that it's a business not a game.

    Dumars should be held accountable, but when the basketball business he's running (aka Detroit Pistons) is ranked 4th out of 30 in overall profitability, it's unlikely he'll get anything except a bonus check..
     
  14. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Very good point. So what do you do with these imperfect human beings. You love them. I would love to have Sheed right now for around 5 million bucks this year. What a bargain someone got.
     
  15. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Can't we just wait until they play 10 games before we speculate if it is better than last years' badly coached chokers/under achievers??

    It's like asking if Kill Bill Vol 2 is better than Kill Bill Vol 1 before the sequel is ever screened?:stirthepot:
     
  16. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Dumars is responsible for both the profitability of the team...and the won/loss record. The team has faired very well in recent seasons in both categories. I would guess that his leash is still very long as far as ownership is concerned.

    To answer the question on wether the team is better...only the season will determine that bit of information. I see a whole lot of factors which must go correctly to allow the Pistons to win 50 or more games. We just have way too many questions at this point. To me...our two biggest "sure things" are Rip Hamilton and Ben Gordon. After that...we have nothing but mystery and intrigue awating us this season... For some, that's exciting... For others, it's frustrating.

    Record wise...I expect us to be worse than last season. We still may be on our way though, by just adding some missing parts.
     
  17. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    No way I am going to read your post after you start the post by calling me a name. Apolgise, and I will be glad to read your post. Have a nice day.
     
  18. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    cosigned...
     
  19. max

    max All-Star

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    I deleted it. It was a good post but you cannot insult someone who has a different opinion.
     
  20. albo23

    albo23 Second Round Draft Pick

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    Hahahah oh god, I can't stop. But okay, I'll repost it... Lol.

    They lost:
    Antonio McDyess (9.6 PPG, 9.8 RPG) (30 Minutes per game)
    Rasheed Wallace (12 PPG, 7.4) (33.2 mpg)
    Allen Iverson (17.4 PPG) (36.5 mpg)

    They gained:
    Charlie Villanueva (16.2 PPG, 6.7 RPG) (26.9 mpg)
    Chris Wilcox (5.4 PPG, 3.3 RPG) (13.2 mpg)
    Ben Gordon (20.7 PPG) (36.6 mpg)
    Ben Wallace (6.5 RPG) (23.5 mpg)

    It seems very clear that they signed players that put up better stats with less playing time than they lost, and they got considerably younger.

    CV > Rasheed
    Wilcox ? Dyess (Depends on the minutes)
    Gordon > Iverson
    Wallace > nothing

    How did the Pistons get worse?


    P.S. If none of you can take an insult, how did you get through high school?
     

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