Is this team better than last year's?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Lee356, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    "It's like asking if Kill Bill Vol 2 is better than Kill Bill Vol 1 before the sequel is ever screened" Dre

    Reservoir Dogs beat them both....:stirthepot::stirthepot:

    Which by the way might be the new nickname for the bench players.....
  2. kcpistonfan

    kcpistonfan First Round Draft Pick

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    No we are not going to win the championship this season, but the old lineup was not either. Isn't the definition of insanity to try the same thing again and again expecting a different result.

    I love Billups, Sheed, and McDyess, but come on. CB has 2-3 years left....AM maybe 1-2 ......and with Sheed’s mentality he had ZERO left with us. Now with Ben Gordon we have 5-8, CV 5-8, Wilcox might return to his old ways and you got 5-7 good years left. If we find a way to land Bosh next season, we have a championship contending team for the next 5-6 years.

    Yeah I would liked to have landed one of the big FA this year, but with the shrinking cap it was not going to happen.
  3. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: Reality Check...

    The cupboard seemed pretty bare after last season for all that planning Joe was doing. (I'm presuming he was planning because he certainly wasn't making the team better.)

    P.S. Dumards is incapable of making mistakes.
  4. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    WOW!! Darth throwing down the fantasy gauntlet! I like the feistiness!! Bring the pain, Lee!!! :MusicBigGrin:

    It's not about whether we can take insults. This forum is a rare place in the internet where people can discuss things maturely and like adults. If you want high school manners, this is the wrong place.
  5. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    This team is not better. We have no interior defense and no one that can or wants to rebound. You also have a log jam at the 2 guard. Who is going to be on the floor when the game is on the line BG or RIP? If we go with a 3 guard line up that further creates a defensive liablity.

    We are a younger team no doubt and have added more scoring power, but I don't think that will translate into more wins because you have to stop the other guy and if you can't you will lose 90% of the time.
  6. raxrets

    raxrets Starter

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  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Darth, if you knew what you were asking, you would not ask. This person and I have a long history of arguing, pointless arguing. Ain't going to happen. If you care to ask a specific question I will be glad to respond.
  8. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Re: Reality Check...

    I hope my other post explains this. Last thing I am going to do is start aguing with this guy. Years of pointless aguing between us has already happened - I ain't going to start it back up.
  9. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Good points from all posters involved, once the animosity is overlooked.

    I think we're looking at 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.


    Last years team could have won more games if some silly issues would have been addressed better.
    Last years team could have also been worse. Do we make the playoffs if Milwaukee isn't so laden with injuries?

    I think this team can be better. It can also be worse. I'll go into this season believing that we have a coach and new players that intend to actually try more often than the teams of previous years, as well as a GM that finally recognizes his place in the scheme of things by living up to his words and attempting to rectify the matter if other squads continue to want it more on a nightly basis.


    One thing to ponder though-
    If this years team loses more games but tries harder and shows more cohesion out on the floor than last years squad....which one is really the better team?
  10. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    You forgot Billups. Remember, losing Billups was suppose to result in a free agent signing this year. Ben Gordon turns out to be that guy. We lost Sheed, a guy who has serious length and toughness inside. Forget the stats sometimes cause they don't tell about defense. And you are not including two of our best defenders in the discussion, Afflalo and Amir Johnson, who were given away to make room for Wilcox. As far as insults - you must be new. Ask the mods to steer you to the policy here on respecting other posters.
  11. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Hear ya Winless, but let's look at the standings,

    Team D ranked 8th @ 94.7
    But
    Our Scoring was ranked 28th @ 94.2

    Team Defensive FG% was ranked 8th @ 0.451
    But
    Our own FG% ranked 18th @ 0.455 (no room for error there)

    Our Rebounding had us at +1 (again no room for error)

    Our steals ranked 29th (slow hands / no anticipation)

    Our Blocks had us at 19th (no hops / no help)

    Even though we took 2nd best care of the ball in the league
    our turnover to assist ratio had us at 15th, right in the midle.

    I'm amazed at the 8th ranking because we couldn't steal a ball from one-legged man. Our rebounding at +1 was thanks to a 35 year old McDyess. We out muscled no one under the boards and our put-backs seemed non-existent. I think being 8th was an anomoly (like catching Bigfoot rooting around in your camp cooler).

    But the question is if we are alot better on O and slipped to average on D will that win us more games? Will it give us a wider variable to work with? If we hit our foul shots and get some tip-ins will it make a 3 game difference?

    Our primary problem last year was scoring. Look at the numbers they speak for themselves. Our shot selection and inability to make charity shots definently cost us games. We couldn't hit threes. For everyones talk about no true PG we were still average in assists (literally in center of the pack) and barely turned it over.

    If the league's intent is to stop all clutching, tugging, grabbing, bumping etc, you better have fast feet and better be able to run and score cause it's going to look like the old ABA.

    The teams we had and the halfcourt grind-it-out schemes we used are mandated to history not part of the near Stern driven future. We didn't look or play like winners last year with the 8th best D, isn't that proof that D while important is not the answer moving forward?
  12. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    I hate the idea of same old, same old. But I love the idea of keeping older vets around who know how to play the game while developing youth around them. Sheed has some good years left, especially if his minutes are kept down. Ditto for Billups, Dyess.

    On the Flip side, we are keeping Rip and we got Ben back. Your argument kind of breaks down a bit. Is old good or bad? The answer is its neither. Its a player by player thing. We got Uncle Cliffy at 35, and in my opinion he was our 2nd best player that year - behind Stack. (Carlisle's opinion at the time too.) Dumars simply has not got it right on the coaching front since Larry Brown left. He hung on to Flip too long - and then just flipped out himself and hired Curry - a head case if you could ever spot one. Nobody who thinks they are the perfect head coach with zero experience has his head on quite straight. Dumars, for not recognizing this, pretty much has to go. That was a terribly bad move, hiring his buddy who had no experience - and worse, a buddy who did not think he needed any experience.
  13. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Lee, I never asked anything.

    I merely suggested that you respond to the facts G-man presented (I happen to agree with him on his points). I'm not going to get into this stuff that you say exists between the two of you. I'm older and wiser and I am tired of getting called into Rascoe's office over this stuff.
  14. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Re: Reality Check...

    Why must people take things to extremes to try to discredit another side's view?
  15. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Great point Cloud. I swear I was thinking of posting a similar thought earlier today but wasn't sure how to phrase it. :)
  16. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    That's for sure.
  17. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Bite me CJ.:mmph::laser:
  18. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    :burgereater:
  19. kcpistonfan

    kcpistonfan First Round Draft Pick

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    I hate to disagee.....but I do. Yes it is nice to have vets around, but the salary cap does not let you keep vets and add players like BG and CV. Also, what kind of mentor is Sheed now? He has played with zero passion the last two years. I would rather see him and Billups go than to ruin their legacy here by half-butting everything.

    The window in the NBA is small and that team had left their prime. Sheed had to go....and if we had not traded Billups we would be looking at a team another year older with only decline left. I will miss AM above the other two. In my opinion, he gave his best every night.

    Will we be better this yeaR? I think so, because players are excited about playing and being here.More important, are we a better team than last years team would be this season? Chemistry is what led us in 2004 and what killed us in 2008. As far as a 35 year old being our second best player......well the records of that era speak for themselves.

    As far as Joe Making mistakes, all GM's do. However, he is one of the best at fixing his mistakes.
  20. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    For this year, we already have Rip. Ben Gordon is not needed. We could have kept Sheed pretty cheaply. I'd rather have him than CV. I don't want a guy who just scores, but plays no D. Wilcox? His team was not playing him much. For reasons. Not that good. Keeping Afflalo, our best perimeter defender, and Amir, our most active defender, was a much better option vs. acquiring Wilcox.

    Lets say Dumars managed to turn Sheed's expiring contract into a decent center, and we used the money saved from AI's expiring contract to get a first rate point guard. Then I would not be quite so upset. But instead, we went from having a very solid point guard position to weak at the position. We went from having a very solid defender at center in Sheed to having CV, a guy who is basically going to give us scoring numbers and let the other team get the points right back. CV is a power forward - and we already have JMAX there. We already had Amir there. We just signed Ben for more depth there. CV is just not needed - from a defensive point of view. And of course we added Wilcox, yet another power forward. None of it makes any sense.

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