It's all about the Benjamins (or the Euro's)

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by 16 Mile, Jul 21, 2008.

  1. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    What tremendous foolishness is this? Does the American media really believe the world is a giant suicide bomber pinball machine waiting for someone to venture out into it? Please, somebody tell me I'm taking this out of context.
     
  2. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    A 3 year 20 million Euro contract where the team also agrees to pay your taxes is HUGE!!!! For Atl to match up to that they would have to pony up a 3 year $40/$45 million dollar deal.

    It creates global competition now, no more old grey club members colluding and playing/paying by their own rules. Again, who would've thought that a Honda Civic & Accord or a Toyota Camry could essentially erradicate Detroit.
     
  3. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I was also hoping there was a bit of irony involved in the phrase you quoted. To think terrorist attacks could occur only in Europe sounds a little bit patriot- act- brainwashed.
     
  4. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    do not blame stern or "abramovich" for such trend. Extremely cheap dollar has made overseas offers lucrative, that is main story.
     
  5. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Ah, terrorism is real, and if hulligans can brawl to the death, it's insecure. Europe is unstable.
    Europe is nasty, period.
     
  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    The offer Delfino got was way richer than the weak dollar can explain. It was a multiple of what he would have received here.
     
  7. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    I remember it vaguely, but still: Dino Radja turned down really lucrative offers at his time just to play in NBA. In Barcelona olympics Dream Team was biggest story: they looked like invincible gods.

    For now NBA players aren't saints anymore, "weak and soft" euros ain't afraid of "tough" afroamerican bball players( under FIBA rules). Mystic "aura" of NBA what Dream Team helped to maintain has dissapeared.
     
  8. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I dunno, he's getting 3million euros per year, that's $4.5 million in US, I think teams could part with the $3mill, but $4.5mill for Delfino.....All things equal the weak dollar makes an overseas contract very attractive.
     
  9. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Don't forget that European teams manage to play payer's income tax. And that would make it a whole different ballgame. EUR 3 mil is almost $4.8 mil. If you figure 40% tax, you're talking about $8 mil per year that he'd have to make in US to come up with the same money. Who's going to give him that?
     
  10. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    So is that a regular occurance playing overseas?? I thought that they did something special just for Childress, if that's the norm, then it's crazy for 2nd tier players to stay in the NBA. Smart move Josh, your agent is Da BOMB!!!!
     
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    It may have been a multiple, but I don't think the value is wrong. $4.5 is less than the MLE. A young player like Delfino, possible upside, surely is worth a Bobby Simmons/James Posey type deal in a bull market?

    The reality is, discretionary spending is under assault (and will continue to be for some time), and the owners are not stupid. They are very bearish on salaries, as they likely are on their profit potential for the next few years. That's allowing Russian and foreign teams to swoop in and pick up NBA MLE range talent for less than the MLE, and appreciably less in their domestic currency. It's a win win for them. They are getting a bargain, and the player is getting a salary he might not have found in the NBA.

    That's what happens when a union and (increasingly pro-owner) CBA have to compete with the free market European sports league system. AFAIK, in Europe, you can pay a player whatever you want. You can buy and sell players if you want. It's strictly a system of personal contracts, not organizational collusion for the purposes of wage and profit protectionism.
     
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    What do you mean by this? They pay the US income tax above the salary number that we hear about?
     
  13. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Kind of. You can use foreign tax paid as a deduction or a credit, depending on certain circumstances. Also, part of the income is free of tax as it is earned while you live outside of US (although in his case it won't make much of an effect since the limits on those are under $100K/year). I am not a tax person, but this is to the best of my knowledge.

    If you'd like more info on that, here's one link:
    US Citizens Living Abroad, Expatriates, IRS Income Tax Explained

    You can also go to IRS website if you have lots of time on your hands.
    :)
     
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    That is the main point I think. For a guy like Delfino, it doesn't matter since he isn't a US citizen anyway. He won't have to pay the enormous US income tax for someone making millions of dollars. However, if an American player went to play in Europe, he would be essentially double taxed. The deductions that the US would allow for taxes paid to his employer country would likely be minimal.

    Tax details are boring as %%%%, so don't even bother responding to this.
     
  15. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Yeah, there are lotta ins, and outs, and what-have-yous, man.
     
  16. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    That's what I heard, basically, if you're from a country like the US that taxes out of country wages, it doesn't help too much. So Childress doesn't get much of a lift from his Greek taxes being paid by the team (though he escapes state taxes).

    But for Delfino, and I think most of the other countries that don't tax out of country wages, the fact that he doesn't have to pay taxes combined with the Euro to Dollar ration more than doubles his effective salary.

    Also, I wonder how much of this is Joe's fault. He may have started a trend by refusing to pay for decent backups (not counting Nazr) and signing the Tony Delks, Mo Evans, Flip Murrays, and Jarvis Hayes of the world for league minimum. Now other teams are following.

    MLE's are an endangered species in the NBA, too good to make league mins, not good enough to get real money.
     
  17. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Anthony Goldwire played in Greece.

    I think entirely too much is being made of this "trend". Childress and Delfino. Delfino probably won't even last a year in Russia. He may claim an injury or whatever but no way he fulfills his contract.
     
  18. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    I think the whole issue is stemming from this being the first publicly noticed time that a mainstream player is getting paid more to play overseas than they would get playing in the NBA.
     
  19. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    True. In the past guys like Bob McAdoo and Darryl Dawkins finished up their careers overseas and got paid more than they would have in the NBA....no guys in their prime though.

    But hasn't the NBA has siphoned off enough mainstream players from Europe in recent years to compensate for Childress?
     
  20. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Kinda reminds me of the old ABA days. (or maybe USFL?)
    Can a NBA/Euroleague merger materialize in the future?

    I realize that were talking about MLE caliber players here but I have a feeling that if the U.S. dollar keeps tanking, the likes of Fino and Childress could be laying the groundwork for some big-time change. All it would take is one or two NBA "stars" or a few highly touted lottery picks to shun "The Association" for BIG European paydays to change the landscape of professional B-Ball.

    ...I'm not really sure that I'm looking forward to a Lakers vs FENERBAHCE ULKER "WBA Finals" in 2015.
     

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