It's time to **** or get off the pot

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mercury, Nov 27, 2005.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Mo, my problem is that his coach is saying that he is not maximizing his minutes. How long does this charade of Darko playing hard when he wants to continue? What sort of precedent does it set when JMax will come in and work his tail off in garbage time while Darko sulks if he isn't given first half minutes?

    It would be somewhat excuseable if Darko was a franchise player. It should be apparent to everyone at this point that the kid is probably not as good as advertised. Not by a long shot.

    You know who puts up better #s than Darko? Theo Ratliff. That's right, the Rattler. You know who Darko reminds me of? Bruno Sundov.

    We passed up some quality ballers for this kid, and in year 3 we find out that he needs more hand holding and nuturing? Is this a professional basketball team with a win now philosophy or a freaking day care?

    Joe Dumars School for Moody European Youths. Perfect. Maybe we'll attract more females to the forum when they find out there is a maternal aspect to being a Pistons fan.

    Btw, we're cool. But don't keep drinking the kool-aid man. Darko is a second round talent. Play JMax.
  2. Abe Froemen

    Abe Froemen First Round Draft Pick

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  3. Abe Froemen

    Abe Froemen First Round Draft Pick

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    2nd round talent

    2nd round talent or not we wasted a #2 pick on the kid and he should be traded immediately or play plain and simple.
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Joe won a title and built this team under the cap. If Darko busts, that's a blemish, not firing material.

    Darko's averaging a rebound every 5 odd minutes this year. So if we played him 30 minutes, you could expect 6 boards. That's sad for a 7 footer.

    He's also got more turns than made baskets. It's time to deal with reality. Even Laimbs remarks that Darko looks "motivated today". How can this guy afford not to be motivated all of the time?
  5. Abe Froemen

    Abe Froemen First Round Draft Pick

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    i just checked and i have to correct myself darko has played 494 minutes so that boils down to 11 games in three years still pathetic
    how is that developing a #2 pick? i dont care about that crap (Darko's averaging a rebound every 5 odd minutes this year. So if we played him 30 minutes, you could expect 6 boards. That's sad for a 7 footer.) he will never get 30 minutes to prove he can get more than 6 boards

    btw sheed gets lousy rebounding #s for his size 1[​IMG] 3 [​IMG]4[​IMG] that is his rebound line for 32 plus minutes the other night ball dont lie and niether do stat lines and just as another kicker go to nba.com pick sheed and look at his rebounding stat for the year 6.7 per game and you want to cry over how many boards darko gets in 2 minutes?
  6. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    I believe Darko has to play to improve his trade value (or just plain value).
    I would rather DMC have Dice's minutes over Ben and Sheed... they were only overworked in the OT game... their minutes have not been abused this year...35 MPG for Ben...32 MPG for Sheed.
    Why isn't anyone complaining more about Princes 37.6 minutes?

    Harrington can be had if you include a decent prospect like Delfino.
    They have nothing to do but go on with their youth movement... they know Al is a lame duck.

    Always nice to be proven "wrong as usual" by our local talent expert 357... given his wonderful track record.

    Botom line is nothing can be proven without more PT.
  7. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    the problem with that logic is, if we drafted bosh/wade, how many rings would they have? 1, maybe even 2. the championship window hasn't been closed because of darko correct, but drafting bosh or wade wouldn't have done that either.

    here's the problem i have with you saying that. you call jmax a ball hog, yet you're upset that darko doesn't take more shots. if darko shot every time he touched it, i'm sure you wouldn't call him a ball hog, you'd say he was trying to find his offense and get himself comfortable shooting in the NBA.

    you know what jmax has shown besides a great post game, excellent rebounding, excellent shot-blocking skills, and the courage to constantly bang bodies in the post? he's shown hustle and a desire to earn minutes every time he gets on the floor. he doesn't feel like he is owed anything, and that he has to earn it, which is the right attitude.

    now i still think that if darko gets more time in meaningful minutes and shows he can play, that this won't be a problem ... i just don't see him changing his attitude to one similar to jmax (although delfino did which was completely unexpected).

    with all that said, it's early in his 3rd season, flip's going to give him his opportunity sooner or later, and when he does we'll find out if darko is worth it.
  8. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    I really want to put in my two cents, but I think both sides of the debate bring very valid points which are strong enough to justify keeping him or trading him.

    I guess I'd keep him unless there was a really sweet offer and I don't see that coming unless he gets more time...in which case does playing him help or hurt the team...if it helps then we want to keep him....if it hurts then we want to off him, but then nobody else wants him (or they offer crap).

    But the team is doing so well...how do you put him in? But maybe they do better with him in there...if not immediately then in how long...and is it worth the risk (developing a top draft choice vs. possibly sacrificing home court advantage in some series....possibly even improving our position by playing him??).:confused:

    Darth is glad he isn't Joe D. Well....sometimes. :laugh:
  9. crastinator

    crastinator First Round Draft Pick

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    Like Microwave, I felt upset after reading that Oakland Press article. :frusty: And I was wondering when the DHOF club would be clammering for Flip's head with that quote about Maxy as an example of how to utilize any and all minutes.

    from today's Detnews, looks like blood flow is the excuse Darko's gonna go with:
    Funny how Maxy looks pumped up even if he only gets into the last minute - - this is the reason I'm not going to be sure of Darko's desire until he proves it.
  10. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Okay..okay...

    Now I see what you're clammerin' about.

    I hadn't read the Oakland Press article.

    I would have to say that leaves a bad taste in my mouth as well. I thought Darko was simply doing what was asked of him by the coaching staff. But, hell, if Flip has soured on Darko's performance...well that's two coaches that have compained about his inability to earn minutes. You are absolutely right. This dude is being coddled...and it has to stop. Sounds like coach is more excited about playing Max than Darko.

    No need to worry about me drinking Kool-Aid. I see the writing on the wall. The next couple games will be very telling of young Darko's future in my eyes.

    Let's see how he responds.

    I'm hoping this will light a fire in him. I will say that if he plays with the same intensity he did in the last game for that first quarter stretch, he should be in good shape. But hell, I'm with you, what else has to happen to motivate this guy. Play fired up and make it hurt for the coach to take you out of the game....age and experience is no excuse when effort is being challenged.
  11. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    I like how Merc and Micro take diametrically opposed positions on an issue and Lee still says they're both wrong. Priceless.

    I can see both sides on this one. I'm not sold yet on Darko as the primary big off the bench, but I also believe that the playing time he's getting right now isn't enough if we are really trying to develop him.

    The Harrington deal (for McDyess, if we threw in Delfino) does make some sense because he can play both the 3 and the 4. And Atlanta may go for it because they'll lose him after the season anyway and they need a legitimate starting 4 pretty badly (and they're stocked with young 3's). We definitely need a backup 3 (Mo's pretty good but he's not really a SF).

    I posted this the other day after the Double OT loss and I will again now-we HAVE to either play or trade Darko. It's a waste to leave him sitting on the bench. And I don't think we can afford to wait another year, because, like it or not, someone's going to offer him a lot of money based on potential alone and we need enough information to make a decision about whether to match. We aren't getting that at this rate.
  12. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    The wonder of Darko is that both sides always have enough ammunition to argue their side, but not enough information to win. :)

    But let's put that aside for a second. Why the clamor for Harrington? If there is one quality a player needs on this team, it's the ability to accept a role ... and Al forced his way off a team nearly as successful as the Pistons because he didn't like coming off the bench. No way I mess with this club's chemistry for a guy who'd rather play 10 more minutes per game for a losing team.
  13. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    jmax hasn't been coming off the bench for 2 straight years. he didn't have to go through lb hell getting yelled at every moment he's in there either. lets see how jmax feels still chained to the bench in 3 years. see if he keeps the enthusiasm going when darvin ham gets his meaningful minutes.

    my only problem is utilize those minutes to do what?? flip hasn't told darko what to do to increase his playing time. darko to me has came in every game and played great defense yet this earns him no more minutes. if flip tells him to get after rebounds and that will get him minutes i'll bet darko will do it. flip is getting a pass with me because he does put darko in the game early in the first half and guess what we are still 10 - 2. now think if lb had been doing that for 1.5 years how far darko's development would be.
  14. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Your first statement is an instant classic... luved it.

    As for why Al?... cause he can improve a very weak backup SF position offensively and defensively...and give us much needed post scoring.
    He wanted to be traded from Indy because he knew his contract was coming up and he stood a better chance of adding millions if he was a starter... would you do the same?

    Would he be happy as a backup for the Pistons?... that depends on if he wins a ring... even if he didn't want to stay a Piston, we make room for Jmax or DMC and help the signing of Ben and another SF.

    BTW Al is a less selfish player than Dice.

    Maybe I am pining for Al... but it sure looks like a fit at SF (PF as a last resort).

    That's it for Harrington, I promise.
  15. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    those quotes were all taken out of context. nothing to say that darko isn't playing hard. i still haven't seen a game where darko hasn't came in and played hard. he hasn't tried to take over offensively but look at him on pick and rolls and when someone drives to the hoop and i wouldn't mistake that for a guy not playing hard. this writer has spinned some of flips words to make it seem like he has soured on darko. he hasn't.

    what i got from the article is jmax is happy with his minutes and tries to do something with them whether it's 3 or 10. jmax is also a rookie and hasn't been in this role for 3 years. darko is a 3rd year player and he knows he can play with guys in this league. he did it in preseason and did it in euroleague so sitting for another year must be hard for him to do.

    the guy isn't being coddled he's being hindered by the situation of being on a championship contender for 3 straight years. behind 3 former all stars that the coach won't play you unless you are better than them. asking darko to be better than mcdyess,sheed and ben to get minutes is crazy he has to be given minutes.
  16. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    darko is at the point he is at in year 3 because we had a coach with a win now and forget the future attitude. darko wasn't developed in his 2 years here. but to answer your question the pistons aren't just a win now club. we are going to win now and in the future. jmax

    i think you are wrong about darko being a franchise player. he's younger than most rookies. he's 7 foot athletic natural shot blocker. he moves like a small forward and has good shooting touch. mcdyess, webber, malone didn't develop thier shooting touch from outside until later on in thier careers. darko is well ahead of them in that area. darko is a player you can build around. have some long term thought process darko is the future. and btw we are winning now. 10 - 2.
  17. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Micro, please don't compare Maxiell to Darko at this point. They are 2 completely different players in 2 completely different situations.

    Why does Maxiell bust ass and look good in his very limited playing time? There are a number of reasons. First, he went through 4 years of college. He is easily more NBA ready than Darko was/is. He has been logging plenty of real game minutes the last 4 years to get all of the things down that Darko is bad at (timing, instincts, etc). Darko has only gotten a handful of legit minutes untill this year.

    2nd, expectations. Maxiell was looked at as a mid-2nd round pick to most analysts out there. No one expects him to save our franchise, or be our future. He is just supposed to play hard when given the chance. Darko, on the other hand was supposed to be a future all-star and blah blah blah. Such high prospects like Darko expect to get minutes. Imagine if Carmello played in only garbage time. Do you think he would be on the top of his game? Same goes for most players in their situation. As much as they look like hardworkers now, if they were locked up on the bench, things would be different. Still, Darko tries to be positive about things.

    3rd, he has had to adapt much more than Maxiell has. When he came here he didn't speak english, and he didn't know the NBA style of game like Maxiell. Add to that that Larry Brown isn't particularly fond of international players, so he probably didn't help him too much in that department. Is it any suprise that Larry faught with Memo, Darko, Arroyo, Delfino, and Rebraca when he was here? It's a bit too much of a coincidence that all of our international players were in his doghouse most of the time he was here. Maxiell has never had LB here to bash his confidence as well. And don't get it twisted, Maxiell has made mistakes too. He takes a shot everytime he touches the ball, and he has been stripped of the ball on quite a few occasions in extremely limited time. That's just the types of things that land you on the inactive list with Larry. Flip is much more willing to let his young guys play, and I am thankful for that. All of our youth will be better off. Darko will probably benefit the most.
  18. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    I agree with Merc..classic statement because it is so damned true!
  19. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    no sounds stupid, don't trade dice is what i say. we know he's a guy who can deliver off the bench, and thats the last thing the pistons need to lose. i am almost 100% sure darko will start getting more pt along with delfino, and by that i mean this wednesday against nj, or when the knicks come to the palace. as for j max he will come in the main rotation couple years from now. if dice was shooting as good as he can we would not have that discussion, and dice has been missing, yet he has made a prescence deep inside especially in that milwaukee game. it seems as if his legs are coming back and probably soon enouh he'll shoot 50% again and everyone will forget about even thinking about tradng him.
  20. Abe Froemen

    Abe Froemen First Round Draft Pick

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    someone please explain

    how a player plays 494 minutes (thats like 11 games if you do the math) in 3 years and is expected to put up numbers like his allstar counterparts
    i said earlier micro wants to dog Darkos rebounds per and if he played 30 it would be 6 a game i pointed out sheed is averageing 6.7 but its sheed so i guess its ok

    my main complaint is that people have turned on the kid and he has only gotten 2 starts his whole career am i saying start him over ben or sheed hell no but that was the most minutes (the 2 starts) he has ever gotten and he produced

    i got news for you unless you get to do your job you only learn so much. Yes you can see how its done but that is not enough. Some people are able to read a manual and know how to fix or run something others learn by doing it get the feel of it and go from there. If you run a machine or you sell cars you cant learn from your mistakes or get better if you dont get the chance. So how is this kid suppose to learn.

    Can we agree that practice is not the same as a game? So that would mean he needs to play for real not practice in order to get better for a game.

    This is getting old to the point of causing a headache if we dont play him trade him for somebody we can play so ben and rasheed are not dead come playoff time. Oh yeah and find a sub for tay as well because he cant play all the time either

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