It's time to **** or get off the pot

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mercury, Nov 27, 2005.

  1. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    definitely

    i think all of freshprince's points are really well made, but i quote just this last bit because i don't think this point is made very often. it might also be connected with larry's sorry showing in athens and, in general, his dislike of so many of the elements that are prominent in the international game.

    more generally, i think it's ludicrous to expect that darko could develop without real game playing time and the confidence on the part of his coach that such increased pt would imply. i tend to overestimate this component of the game probably, but i really can't imagine what the last two years have done to his psyche. sure sometimes he's been negative about the experience, but he was a kid dealing with a helluvalot of brand new and intense %%%%.

    it's cool with me if the pistons trade him because they recognize that under LB's philosophy they couldn't develop DMC. but they should admit that too. what bugs me is the sugarcoating: like everything's going according to plan. it obviously isn't. and unless they are going to start playing the kid regularly in the rotation, they ought to look to trade him or else just write it off. most of all, they ought to own up to having screwed up (not in drafting him necessarily, mind you, but in not investing in him in his first two years).
     
  2. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Listen, I like Darko. His shot blocking ability is pretty fun to watch. His lack of rebounding is dissapointing. His general on-again/off-again attitude is frustrating. The excuses made for the guy are maddening.

    For 5 million dollars a year, I would gladly watch every Pistons basketball game (home and away) from the bench. And I would smile when Larry yelled at me.

    Hell, for 5 mill a year, Larry could call me and yell at me for hours. He wouldn't even have to leave his house. For 5 million a year, he could call me collect, and yell at me all day... :nod:
     
  3. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    are you 7 feet 260 lbs?? i doubt it so lb yelling at you isn't the same thing as lb yelling at darko.

    the real question is would you like a guy yelling at you for 5 million when you could have a guy kissing your butt instead for 5 million or even better treating you with respect for 5 million. that is the situation darko is in. he knows he can play for any of the other teams in the league and make the same amount of money and play much much more and have the coach treat him with respect that's why it's hard to be lb's whipping boy.

    darko rebounds just as well as sheed in equivalent minutes. he just doesn't get the minutes? how upset are you about sheeds rebounding?? why is it an excuse for darko but when sheed doesn't rebound it's because he's a vet and has done other things to prove himself??

    can you give me an example of on again / off again attitude??
     
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    http://theoaklandpress.com/stories/112705/spo_2005112710.shtml

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051128/SPORTS0102/511280335/1127

    Note to Darko, I don't give a flying fart how big or tall you are. You don't personify Pistons bball. You play scared and you don't bring 100%.
     
  5. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i don't see that as on again off again. i see that as consistent. darko has always played well when playing early in the game and not so well when put in during mop up duty only. nothing is new there.

    this is a case of the coach not playing a player to his best ability and being surprised when the player doesn't respond the way he wants. if darko plays well when put in early in the game put him in early. simple solution. if darko doesn't play well during mop up duty only don't be surprised when he doesn't play well during mop up duty.

    lindsey hunter plays well for 3 minutes at a time. play him that way. shaq plays well for the first 3 quarters then tapers off. a coach needs to understand when is the best time to put in a player. yes it's ultimately up to the coach but i think the coach needs to understand a bit from the players side. some players are better as starters some are better as bench players. there are plenty of examples of a player that plays better off the bench vs. being a starter and vice versa.

    note to micro, you only decide who personifies piston bball in your own head. joe d decides for the team.
     
  6. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    i get what you're saying, but garbage time or not darko needs to play his hardest. it is what everyone else on this team does so he should step up and do that too.
     
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    bball jay,

    Your view of Darko's importance in the the world, the NBA and on the Pistons is grossly exaggerated. He's done nothing to deserve preferential treatment. I don't care how big he is, he's gunna be gonzo if he doesn't grow up and start playing like a professional.

    I'll be sure to look you up when Joe D trades him or lets him go in free agency. You'll see that Joe keeps cards close to his chest and schemes endlessly. Don't think Joe finds Darko's "meaningful minutes" or "warming up" excuses captivating when he has a squad full of hard working character guys playing for affordable salaries.
     
  8. BigDaddy

    BigDaddy First Round Draft Pick

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    I'd toss my boss's salad for $5 mil a year that buys plenty of Listerine to clear my conscience and a new Hummer:laugh:

    Garbage time or not the youngster needs to come in and put forth the effort enough with the excuses of "if I get in early".I don't think he gets enough playing time but our situation is very different than most any other team that drafted him 2 overall would have played the living crap out of him.

    I think the main problem is who should we have taken instead of him??Depending on what happens if he is still a Piston 3 years from now I could be wrong.But I don't see the kid growing up to that level he has made mills and has a ship.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Thank you BDM22 for an intelligent post.

    I understand all of the factors. My point remains that DMC needs to get with the schedule (which I don't think he can) because he is behind.

    He's playing spotty and with inconsistent effort. Until he fixes that, he'll never justify being drafted in the first round let alone increased playing time.

    I see Flip's point. Why invest time in Darko if he won't return the effort? Flip can't always get DMC in a game during the first half. That's no excuse to dog it.
     
  10. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Everyone was dancing in the streets during preseason when the "Serbian Swat Machine" began making his bid for the Hall of Fame. I'll admit I sent in my application to the DHOF club during this time because I didn't want to wear a sticker on my head. Right now I'm seeking legal council to try and have my club membership annuled.

    Darko lacks the intensity gene needed to be a professional athlete. Even pro bowlers have to have some kind of killer instinct for Pete's sake.
     
  11. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Stop.

    Killer instinct? Did you see Darko face off with Dikembe?

    Look at Darko's history, and maybe you might understand his problems. First, he's always been touted as the next coming, but has never been given real PT because he was always playing talent too old for him. It happened in Serbia, it happened with LB. The kid has zero real game time experience.

    All he wants is real PT, and when he gets into garbage time, like any kid does when he's disappointed, he sulks. JMax, on the other hand, is excited for any pt he can get.

    So, as a coach and a gm with this much money invested in a player, you have two choices; force him to change his attitude, if not call him a bust and let him go to some garbage team where he can play; or throw him some bones, get him at least 10 min a game so he learns how to play in real time.

    Because of our starting 5, we're starting to become the farm team for the NBA, its time we started making an effort to give some of the backups pt, especially the young uns, so they can help us deep in the playoffs. And there is no reason we cant do it without losing. Does anyone believe this team cant win 50+ games with Darko and Delfino playing?

    I mean seriously, anyone care to think about Darko playing with Lebron next year?
     
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    What makes you think that Lebron wants to play with Darko?
     
  13. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    I can see it now. The teamwork. Lebron sweating buckets limps to the bench for relief late in the 4th quarter. Darko is there to answer the call...he hands Lebron a towel to wipe off the sweat.

    Assist credited to Darko (if it's a home game)!!! :laugh:
     
  14. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Stop it! Seriously, man, you're killing me! :yield:
     
  15. Tally

    Tally First Round Draft Pick

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    I think we are seeing the end of the games with Darko. Flip has noticed that others are putting in one hell of a lot more effort. No matter how much slack Flip had for Darko, it seems like the kid just uses it up as fast as he can. I think we will all know where this is going in the very near future.
     
  16. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i don't think people think about that enough. the fact is darko plays well when given minutes. guess what he would get on another team. he would get major minutes and play well. darko is either going to shine as a piston or shine somewhere else it isn't like the game isn't there. that would be scary having darko as the starting pf on cleveland that would really be a shift of power in the east.

    it would be a different conversation if darko didn't play well when given minutes. but the fact is when played during meaningful minutes darko produces and has lots of upside and doesn't hurt the team. giving up on a # 2 pick at this point is very dumb. darko's attitude about garbage time will not change. it's the way he was punished for 2 years under the last regime you can't feed it to him now as garbage time is a great thing now. play the kid.

    why should the pistons be what the clippers used to be. we shouldn't train the young players for the rest of the league. we need to keep some of our prospects. not just sit them on the bench for a few years then lose them to other teams that offer more playing time. i think it's dumb management to think that you don't have to keep your employee's happy. darko needs to be given minutes to be happy he needs to feel like part of the team and part of the success. we need to do this to get him to sign for less when that time comes.
     
  17. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    darko gives effort when the game is on the line. flip needs to play the kid not just put him in for mop up duty and expect him to give his all.

    i will say this the last couple coaches that decided not to develop the youth are gone. so i too see where this is going darko is going to start getting first and second half burn. the pistons will continue winning and everyone will be happy.
     
  18. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Has any number 2 pick gotten this kind of treatment? Take in the size and physical skills. Take his history. Take the draft. Take LB, the contract squabbles and the broken hand. Take the 3 all stars ahead of him. Darkos path is unique. Its a mistake to judge him by other 2nd picks. If people want to gripe about Wade or Bosh, hey the opportunity costs are real for those players, so go ahead. Just realize that he's been put in an extremely rare situation so don't expect textbook results.

    That said, Darko needs to meet flip half way...you need to show up in practice AND in garbage time. Flip needs to give him consistent minutes and a defined role for him to get comfortable in.
     
  19. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Slippy

    Michael Olowokani? Kwame Brown? No those two never got the Darko treatment. KVH has been villified quite a bit though.
     
  20. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    flip also has to meet darko half way with playing time. flip needs to reward the effort put in to continue to get the effort from the player. darko led the league in blocks in the preseason from off the bench yet is racking up the dnp cd's. darko wants to play while the game counts. you can't keep telling a guy to leave it all on the court and then don't reward him.
     

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