It's time to **** or get off the pot

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mercury, Nov 27, 2005.

  1. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    I'm with ya man, that's why I said flip needs to give him consistent minutes.

    I was discouraged every game he didn't get in. And who the hell am I. Some stat tracking fan that's all. Darko gets to live this little rollercoaster ride. ASB said (mlive forums) he needed to get some mental toughness. This is true. I'd like the situation to be different but this is the reality of it. He HAS to man up mentally or take his paycheck and go home. Nobody can take his place and do it for him. I believe in Darko. I think he can do great things for THIS team. I keep hearing that cajun guy from the waterboy(?) "You can do it!"

    Mo Evans gets a lot of burn for all his deficiencies. Even Flip said that he can make some big plays...its the regular plays that need work. Every guy coming off the bench can improve their contributions to the team.

    The time to develop Darko is now (because he's on my fantasy team:eyebrows: ). Sit Dyess for a little bit. It should be apparent fairly quick if he's ready this year or if we can shelve him for later. It would be great if we could sub in Dyess AND Darko instead of one or the other...and have confidence.
  2. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    When you are the coach of a professional organization, you can tell your young guy whatever you want, as long as you are winning.
    :nod:
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm sorry, but that is a crock. This isn't the preseason anymore. Shotblocking specialists don't get primo minutes.

    Reward for what? Playing 10 minutes without a rebound? Here's a cookie Darko.

    Darko wants to play while the game counts? Well he better learn how to play when they are recording stats. IE, the full 48. Darko's got zero leverage to demand PT early in the game. He's not giving a consistent effort everytime he hits the court.

    He's making around $5 million a year to play hard when the situation suits him. Well, $5 million dollars buys a Dale Davis and a Mo Evans so I don't want to hear any complaining about Maurice. At least he's cheap. And at least his mistakes occur WHILE playing hard, not while slacking off.

    Darko is stealing Joe Dumars' money.
  4. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Apparently Joe is cool with it for now. We'll see how long Darko sticks around if he continues to need special handling.

    The thing is, I like the kid sometimes. His blocking ability is pretty cool to watch. Kinda like Dikembe in the day. The problem is his lack of consistent effort, and his lack of improvement. :confused:

    I know you need playing time to "hone your skills", but after 2 full years of watching NBA games from the best seats in the house, and having access to the best basketball minds in the business, Darko should be able to box out for a rebound. :mad:

    The constant excuse making for the kid makes it hard to like him sometimes. I know he is a number 2 pick, but if you read these forums very often, you would think that he is Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul Jabar, and Hakeem Olajuan all rolled into one. And the only reason the rest of us can't see that is because the coach is a meanie, lack of bloodflow, cultural insults, and whatever else the excuse of the minute is.

    :doh:
  5. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    B.S.

    The thing with Darko is that he shoots his wad in the first couple of minutes... It's nice that he's hustling on defense... but there's a lot of wasted motion... you can move quickly and still relax... use some of that energy going to the glass.
    On offense he's all nerves... it really doesn't have to be that difficult... make one move to get them leaning then go to the hole... a nice easy hook (that no one on this planet can block)... two points.
    The hook needs to be released 3/4 on the way up so he's not showing the ball at the end of the release (that's block-able).
    He needs to think like it's a practice instead of life or death... easy motions ... smart decisions... and a smooth relaxed release.

    I don't see any reason DMC can't be as effective as big Z in Cleveland... with better footwork.... someone give the kid a Valium.
  6. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    He doesn't need valium. He needs PT. The game slows down with experience. Efficiency of movement is skill and that is the case no matter what you do. He has the gift but its not developed. Its Dumars' decision to take a chance on DMC developing into a real player. The pistons are paying for the potential. I personally think its a little too much to pay but if Joe D thought the same way, he'd have picked Bosh.
  7. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    all this crap about darko not playing hard is crap. darko plays hard during meaningful minutes. yes he slacks off during garbage time but that's because darko isn't about stats. i've never seen darko dog it during meaningful minutes. i'm sorry but you guys are wrong darko is in the position to demand playing time in the first half. maybe not this year but if the pistons don't somebody else will. not too many people see it but darko is slowly being driven away into the hands of another team.

    i'm sorry micro but you are wrong a shot blocker should get primo minutes. especially when the other team is driving to the hole with complete freedom against the other bigs. when darko comes into the game the defense takes on another level. he isn't stealing joe's money but he will if joe doesn't get a coach in here that is going to develop him then darko will walk after years of collecting millions only to blossom on somebody else's team.

    all of the people talking about darko not filling it up on offense. need to check out ben wallace who stinks it up on offense regularly. check out antonio mcdyess who is good for a couple of bricks a night and at least 2 fouls called on screens a game. rip is a turnover waiting to happen anytime he drives.

    all the people talking about rebounding. look at sheed he rebounds in a similar amount that darko does. people talk about effort tay has been known to go missing in action some games.

    i'm not saying these things to dog out other players. i'm saying that all of the things darko is crucified for the other main players on the team are given free passes on. darko hasn't even played enough minutes to reach a comfort level and people are expecting him to play like a 10 year vet cause he sat on the bench for 2 years. and was abused in practice for 2 years. yeah that's the way to develop a player. it's not excuses it's truth and i'll always take up for darko cause for some reason it seems like the popular thing to do is throw mud at him. lets see him play bad then throw mud. don't just throw mud because he plays well when in meaningful minutes and doesn't pad his stats in garbage time. if you just like to throw mud throw it equally at the rest of the team.
  8. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The Pistons are paying for Height + Youth x Potential.

    Joe D would have picked Bosh if he were 7' @ 17.
  9. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Last I checked, JMax has one defensive rebound for the season, 1 defensive rebound in 27 minutes. If you compare DMCs and JMax's 48 min stats (which I think should be comparable, considering they play the same type of minutes) they are pretty similar, except for points, DMC gets 12 points, 9 boards, 6 blocks, and 10 fouls. JMax gets 37 points, 8.9 boards, 0 blocks, and 12 fouls.

    What sticks out is how many times JMax shoots the rock, 17 shots in 27 minutes, thats 30 shots a game, he plays like that in real game time and he'd be yanked in a second. No matter how well he plays in gt, he cant play that style in real time.

    And look at Dampier, he got season high numbers against the Pistons during that blowout. Big deal, he blows during close games. I could care less about garbage time superstars, show me guys who play well when it counts.
  10. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    LanierFan said it true when he said that neither side has enough ammunition to win.
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    @ bball jay, no shot blockers do not get primo minutes unless they rebound. Right now, all DMC does is block shots. He's Adonal Foyle without the dunks.

    I don't care if he goes somewhere else. I think it is apparent to most people that the Emperor has been exposed as wearing no clothes rather than the new garments he paid for. The jumper is spotty. The desire to go hard to the hoop is absent and the determination and competitiveness is definitely in doubt. Darko is Rafael Araujo with "ups".

    Joe needs to get ANOTHER coach in here for Darko? When did this become the Detroit Darkos? Excuse me while I spend a minute at my Best Starting 5 shrine. I need to seek emotional balance.

    @ 16, yeah JMax takes a lot of shots. So what? He had 3 blocks the other night that were whistled for fouls. By the end of the season, he'll be outpacing Darko by miles at this rate. He's an initiator. He's got the same attitude that Adrian Dantley and Corliss Williamson had. "Give me the rock and let me hurt the rim". Darko is more like, "Please don't let the rim hurt me!"
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Yeah, but it is a little fun to have something to argue over. I'll admit that I have been zealous, but I believe what I have written. Time will prove me right or wrong. I'm feeling pretty confident that I will be right.
  13. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    I think you're wrong:P
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Who determines how meaningful the minutes are? Darko? Apparently his coach thinks that all minutes are meaningful. This isn't going to turn into another "the player is smarter than the coach" deal is it?

    The only thing Darko has done thus far as a Piston that is of any significant note is get drafted. That's it. The highlight of his NBA career has been getting picked #2 overall.

    I cannot fathom how you think that Darko is in a position to demand anything over Dice, Sheed or Ben. Heck, the coaching staff has thrown him a bone by playing him a lot in the preseason and deactivating Davis to make Darko the defacto 4th big man.

    This thread was about trading Dice to make room for Darko. I think that is ridiculous. Dice actually contributes across the stat sheet. He's a proven performer. He was our second best player in last season's Finals.

    I still say, that if Joe can bamboozle a high pick or a surefire contributor, it's time to move Darko. I re-thought my earlier opinion and I don't want him going to the Hawks because they will steal minutes from my stud fantasy center, Zaza Pachulia in a fruitless attempt to realize Darko's hidden potential.

    Wow. It just hit me. There are hardly any meaningful minutes to be had on a lottery team. Could be DMC's last rites if he is traded to a team that loses 80% of their games.
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Opinion noted. Heck, I would like to be proved wrong. Don't think it is going to happen, but it would be nice to know we didn't blow that pick.
  16. Abe Froemen

    Abe Froemen First Round Draft Pick

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    dog darko = dog sheed

    Micro if you want to keep dogging darko for the lack of rebounds then you better explain sheeds lack of rebounds he is averaging 6.7 boards a game in 30+ minutes a game. You said it yourself 6 boards in 30 minutes is crap for a player darko's size so what is sheeds excuse?
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Are there any other aspects of Sheed's game that resemble Darko's?

    I didn't think so.

    Darko's played

    28 minutes with this lineup
    Arroyo
    Delfino
    Evans
    Maxiell
    Milicic

    15 minutes with this lineup
    Arroyo
    Delfino
    Evans
    McDyess
    Milicic

    That's 43 minutes without Tay or Ben flanking him as Sheed normally finds himself. Btw, Darko has played 81 minutes thus far. That's also 43 minutes at CENTER not at PF like Sheed plays.

    Did you know that the Pistons are -35 points during the time DMC is on the floor? Do I need to go on?

    I understand people have faith. I even understand why they have faith when I have lost mine. But as time goes on, you've got to start to question what that faith is based on.
  18. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Micro I was just ribbing ya.

    The real question isn't darko. Its whether a championship team can develop a project during a title run.


    How many lottery picks have to outplay 3 all star calibre players to get 5 minutes of floor time? No other player has less margin for error while on the floor. If darko sux in his 5 meaningful minutes, the team could lose home court advantage. Hence DNP in close games. If chris Paul manages an off night and blows it, they get a better chance at a good pick next year.

    I agree that darko needs to tool his game attitude. He's got some learning to do about being an adult. But that comes in time.
  19. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Micro, can we assume you won't be joining the Free Darko club? :confused:
  20. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    That sums it up nicely :nod:

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