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Joe Dumars Interview: "Foundation of Winning"

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by BillLaimbeer, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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  2. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Very sad to read about the passing of his brothers. I didn't know about that.
    Still.........he doesn't open the door very wide to his decision making processes.
    Never felt like he owned any of the negative that happened...........
     
  3. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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  4. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    He admits to two big mistakes...Darko being one and another left to our imaginations. I would think it's trading Chauncey....how it drove the team into the tank.
     
  5. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    Darko is clearcut no 1. but 2nd? Maybe flip saunders? Billups trade was more like...a desperation act...
     
  6. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Maybe not backing Flip was his mistake. Allowing the "switch" mentality.
     
  7. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Funny thing is, I don't view the drafting of Darko in his top-10 screw-ups:
    1. Re-signing Rip Hamilton when it was clear that the team was transitioning to rebuilding mode.
    2. The Ben Gordon Contract
    3. Hiring Michael Curry & Hiring John Kuester
    4. Signing Charlie Villanueva
    5. Giving Arron Afflalo away for less than nothing.
    6. The 2008 contract extension of Jason Maxiel
    7. Not making the Prince, Hamilton + Stuckey for Rondo & Allen (22 mil expiring) deal with Celtics.
    8. Not trading Tayshaun to Dallas in '11 for Caron Butler's Expiring and a 1st round pick.
    9. Re-signing Tayshaun Prince in 2011.
    10. Not letting the FA bidding process play out with Rodney Stuckey.
    11. Drafting Darko instead of someone else (not Carmelo Anthony)
     
  8. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I thought he took on a lot of responsibility for the negative. This is the first time I have seen him admitting so many mistakes.
     
  9. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I don't see how you can screw up any worse than drafting Darko ahead of Anthony, Bosh, Wade, Kaman, etc.
     
  10. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    It was a big screw-up, there's no doubt about it.
    But GMs miss on draft picks every year. Even #2 overall picks. At the time, Darko was the guy that virtually every team would have picked. His skill set was and still is freaking amazing. There is no way that Joe could have known that DMC was lacking that much in the heart department. Even today, Darko has all of the athletic tools to be one of the best big men in the league. He can do a lot of amazing things. ...He just chooses not to.

    All of the moves (or non-moves) that I mentioned set the franchise waaaaaay back - potentially years.
    Despite drafting Darko, the Pistons went on to be one of the most successful teams of the decade. I'm not argunig that Darko isn't among the top-5 worst draft picks of all time. I just don't think it cost the Pistons as much as some of the other moves that I mentioned.

    I guess what I'm getting at is I view drafting Darko as an honest mistake that a lot of GM's would have made. Most of the other items on my list, not too many GMs would have made. They were informed decisions that have cost the Pistons a great deal of losses, time, money and fan interest.
     
  11. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    :darkoalert:
     
    coynejeremy likes this.
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Great interview (by the interviewer). He really asked all of the big questions in a tactful manner.

    I really do like Joe's personality and the things that he is trying to accomplish from a big picture perspective. I just question his judgment and think that he got too insular. He didn't question his assumptions enough as his prior success made him feel like he could do it again by following his gut.

    I'm not sure if I'd fire him or not if I were Gores. I guess I'd probably make the determination by having conversations with him where Joe would talk about things that he never would in an interview. If I kept him, I'd try to make sure that there were some other smart people on the decision making team to supplement Joe.
     
  13. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Perhaps winning the championship despite the Darko pick takes away some of the sting for you? If we would have sucked at the time and then the pick made us even suckier, maybe your views would change?
     
  14. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Not really.
    We suck now and surely could use the services of or the assets generated by one of the players that you had mentioned above. I think the Darko selection hurts us more today than it did in 2004. Also, a case can be made that picking Mello, Wade Bosh, etc. might have lead to additional 'ships during our successful years. I don't think that it would have.

    We likely would not have acquired Rasheed Wallace if Joe wasn't trying to "develop Darko". Without Sheed, it's arguable that we wouldn't have won it all in 2004. That team was a perfect storm of guys who came together at the right time and in the right way. Sheed was a big part of that. In the case of our Pistons, I'll gladly take the championship that we won over the championships that we might have won any day! History trumps the hypothetical every time in my opinion.
    Aside from Wade (who did it with Shaq in his prime), Darko has more championship rings than all of the guys you had mentioned combined (actually, I think Darko sold his ring which says a lot about him).

    To sum up:
    The absolute whiff on the Darko pick really didn't really cost the Pistons all that much.
    Some of the other decisions or non-decisions that Joe has made have cost the Pistons a great deal and will take years to recover from.
     
  15. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I like how he switched up the language in his We're not just going to make a move for the sake of making a move doctrine. Looks like no trades this year either!
     
  16. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Joe only "makes a move for the sake of making a move" with free agency.
     
  17. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Help me find where he personally takes responsibility for a specific item. I read it and came away with a feeling that he didn't.
     
  18. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    I think that when you compare it to previous comments that he's made, Joe was pretty forthcoming in this one. I don't think he took responsibility for anything but he did aknowledge that mistakes were made.
    That's a pretty big step for Joe.
     
  19. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    pretty logical BDL
    Joe was hot when is shot down Chauc. And he don't get no milligan. Joe ran a player and coach friendly program and it came back to bite him.
    [letting LB walk over everyone]
     
  20. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    I would agree with your assessment here. When BillLaimbeer gave it his seal of approval, I expected much more from Joe. :) I was hoping Bill could clarify this for me
     

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