Joe Dumar's Presser...The COntents and Verbatim Remarks

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Dumars does say he wants to change the team... but he also said he doesn't make trades to make trades.... he has good players and he has to get good players in return.

    So I don't think he's going to just trade to trade, he's going to be looking to upgrade the team within the trades.... I asume desire will be a trait that will also be factored in that our starters have been lacking the last couple.
  2. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Thank goodness he isn't reacting like a large number of people on this forum!!
  3. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Agreed.....

    He also said its possible that we'll have the same starting 5. was interesting that he said he didn't get trade offers for his starters because they were all known to be untradeable and now they were. That in itself can make folks a bit more "hard working" or "playing with desire".

    It sounds to me that also Joe gave alot more "orders" so to speak at the start of the year and flip didn't follow thru on them. I can see both sides of folks being upset about how he manages. Do you give your orders then step back and let the coach coach, then decide at the end of the year how things went, or do you micro manage every min? I sorta have to side with how Joe manages, the coach has to be able to do his job without worry that joe is going to change it at the drop of a hat, but at the same time he knows at the end of the year the bill will come due.
  4. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Nothing that Joe Dumars has said thus far holds water in light of the "sacred cow" status the core players enjoyed over the last four years or so.


    IMO, his words do nothing to motivate the players until somebody comes up missing before the beginning of training camp next season. Until then, I firmly believe all the members of the core will be in denial. It fits their modus operandi.
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Joe has the leverage. He has 7-8 players who all have serious playoff experience and reasonable contracts. He also has a long period of time to make a deal or deals. Think of how big the market is out there for damaged goods! And we are going to trade unselfish all-stars, or guys who are on the verge of being all-stars. The market for these guys is going to be excellent. If there is damaging information about Sheed, they better all shut up about it until he is gone. Nobody in the org should say anything that will lower his value.

    Next year will be exciting.
  6. kpaav

    kpaav Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Thanks for bringing this up. I feel as if this may be the underlying problem the team has had - the fraternal / good ol' boys mentality. People have wondered why Flip gets undermined or Darko / Delfino feel miserable and demand to be traded. Its because the "core" are so ingrained that they feel untouchable and do get away with murder. This is not the coaches fault, but on Joe. He has become to attached to these guys and has fostered this mentality, maybe even adding to it himself. Its like when your friends screw up or start acting like idiots - you never quite hold them as responsible as you would a complete stranger. Its only natural for friends, but a horrible way to manage a business. Also, if Curry is the new coach Lindsey must be gone. Too much conflict of interest there.
  7. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    i would argue that fact.... not that we heard about it a year ago like we should have... but sheed went off last year because the kids weren't getting played. don't blame sheed for darko wasting away on the bench... or delfino on prince. sounds like the more we hear now the veterns have been wanting the kids to play more.

    but for the rest of what you say i do agree for the most part, from what has been said... hunter and currey are great friends but don't hear about currey being on that level with the other players so i don't think that will be a problem. and from what we heard all year long lindsey was going to have a job off the court next year anyways.... maybe on the bench still though?
  8. kpaav

    kpaav Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I'm not saying it was the players mentality that prevented the youngsters from getting PT. The very fact that Sheed can clamor / undermine for changes (right or wrong) and not be punished or even talked to is the thing I'm talking about. A ship needs a captain and if he captain doesn't have control of the ship then it won't reach its destination. Is it Flip's fault for not taking control...probably. Nevertheless, if theres constant constitutive disrespect form the beginning then Flip had no shot. That what I am trying to get across. It just seems that the "core" wouldn't have bought into any new coaches plan due to their feeling of superiority. I am just fearful that this will occur again, the only remedy being a change of the "core."
  9. PistonFanInCavsTown

    PistonFanInCavsTown First Round Draft Pick

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    I agree completely. What concerns me is the current list of candidates aren't major improvements over Flip in terms of achievements.

    The players seem to be behind Curry now, but how about next year in the ECF when the going gets tough?
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    At this point, I'm guessing that Michael Curry is on the same wavelength as Joe from a philosophical point of view. He's probably on the "play Amir and AA" bandwagon and that has Joe really excited.

    I guess I don't really care. I'd actually rather have Curry than another coach that Joe doesn't feel like he can control.
  11. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Starter Forum Donor

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    Why would any coach "choose to lose?" Flip wanted to win as badly as anyone else. He and Dumars differed on Amir's talent/importance. There are a lot more factors in the Pistons losing in the ECF than Afflalo and Amir not playing.
  12. Tha Locstah

    Tha Locstah First Round Draft Pick 1x Fantasy Champion

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    That is part of the problem. I believe that the whole organization (the brass all the way down to the fans) believes that AT LEAST the ECFs are a given and they don't really need to worry about anything up to that point. That completely kills any sense of urgency. Just hit the cruise control and wake me up when we get there.

    That is the first thing that has to change and the only way to do that is to weed out the players who have that mentality. Those happen to be the same players that make up the "core". I'm willing to take a couple of years of 1st or 2nd round exits to get back up top where we belong. I definately have faith that Joe is the right guy to get us there after hearing his most recent comments. I just wish he would have done it last year or the year before. The Cavs weren't as good as the Cs were this year. Shoulda done it then. Trade Big Shot! Trade Sheed! Trade Tay! Trade RIP! Trade Dyess! Just get us back to the Finals!

    Word!
  13. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I ask myself if Curry can come in with more credibility than an outside coach. If Curry comes in with the position, "I've been here all year, and this is what we were doing wrong and this is what we need to do to improve," that could be seen as a big plus over any other coach who would probably be bringing in an entirely new philosophy not customized to the players abilities.
    If it ain't tough, it ain't right, remember?...:stirthepot:
  14. kpaav

    kpaav Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I agree with you on how Curry can have credibility, but my whole premise is that in years past it didn't matter what credibility the coach had or deserved. The players were going to run the ship their way. I think the team has enough losses under their belt where they have to get it by now, but it probably is too late and one / two need to be shipped out.
  15. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I agree. Curry is an insider and there is something to be said for promotion from within.
  16. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

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    Yep nothing like an insider to change the culture... err wait a minute.
  17. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think this quote from todays' Freep describes the hiring of Flip:

    The "culture" is to me the inept coaching of Flip Saunders...what is it to you? Indications from interviews are that the players listen to Curry.
  18. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    Yup, like the Boston starters producing when it was needed. And the our starters not producing, as a unit, because Flip put a hex on them.
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    There are always many factors when a team loses.

    A huge part of a coach's job is to get the most out of his players. Flip didn't do that. They tuned him out because they didn't respect him or agree with his ideas. They didn't agree with his ideas because they were uncreative and ineffective. They didn't respect him because he didn't have consistency and he never took a stand. He was weasely.

    He had a huge playbook, but it didn't work against real defenses with multiple games against the same team. His playbook wasn't as good as Miami, Cleveland, or Boston's adjustments.

    For the most part, I thought the players were very professional in the way that they avoided voicing their opinions on this subject to the media. They played hard, but it would have been nice if they had a coach who could have fired them up, instilled confidence, and held them accountable when they slacked off. The most motivational thing I've ever heard Flip do was when he pointed out Dyess' broken nose. Wow.
  20. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

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    I'm just screwing with you.

    :pound:


    I've wanted Flip gone for a loooooooooooooong time.


    I'll trust Joe if he goes with Curry, but we don't really have time for "rookie' coaching mistakes if we are even keeping 3 of the 5 starters.

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