Joe should go after Amare

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Stuckey.And1, Feb 6, 2009.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    The only way I can think of to get Bosh and Amar'e...

    ESPN.com - NBA - Trade Machine Results=

    Sheed + Tay + 1st round pick-----Bosh + Kopono + Humphries

    They get 2 good players right off the bat, a big expiring and a good pick. Toronto also gets rid of 2 mediocre contracts that go out for another 2 years.

    Det gets Bosh + a sharp shooter + Humphries.

    AND, we do this:
    ESPN.com - NBA - Trade Machine Results=

    AI + Maxiell + 1st round pick for Amare + Barbosa + Dragic

    Phoenix gets a huge expiring contract who can fill seats during this tough economic time. Nash + AI = entertainment. They also get a cheap energy big man who is fun to watch + a 1st round pick. Perfect package for them. They shed Amar'e's big contract and shed 3 more years of a $6M+ Barbosa. They can also save on Dragic's salary for 2 more years.

    Det gets Amar'e and Barbosa and we take on Dragic as a favor, then buy out or waive Acker to get back down to 15 players.


    Pistons:
    Stuckey/ Bynum/ Dragic
    Barbosa/ Kopono
    Hamilton/ Afflalo/ Herrmann/ Sharpe
    C. Bosh/ Amir J./ Humphries
    Amar'e/ Dyess/ Brown

    We'd be in trouble at the 3, so I'm sticking Rip and Afflalo in there. When we play SB, that is the only part I don't mind, having these guys at the 3. It's not ideal, but probably beats having Herrmann in. Sharpe not ready and will never be since he never gets to play.

    Phoenix would have Nash/AI/JRich/Maxiell/Shaq + Grant Hill/ Barnes... very exciting team to watch fail.

    Toronto would have Calderon/Parker/Tay/Sheed/O'Neal + Moon/ Bargnani and others.
     
  2. markie8002000

    markie8002000 First Round Draft Pick

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  3. AI IS GOD

    AI IS GOD Second Round Draft Pick

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    Add the kings as well..

    Kings consider roster shakeups - Sacramento Sports - Kings, 49ers, Raiders, High School Sports | Sacramento Bee

    Almost every team is after Amare, and the favorite looks like is the bulls.
    Plus, most trades that go like this goes between eastern - western teams. Suns wont hand amare for a western team IMO.
     
  4. AI IS GOD

    AI IS GOD Second Round Draft Pick

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    http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=11508

    Miami and New Jersey Are Out: Read more in the link

    Chicago The Front Runner: Read more in the link

    Golden State Pushing Hard: Read more in the link

    Toronto Doesn't Have The Chips:Read more in the link

     
  5. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    If that deal goes down, Piston's basketball will be officially dead.

    I cringe to think about what we will look like defensively with AI/Amare. And it's even worse thinking about trying to potentially build around him.
     
  6. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'm afraid you're right about the defense, and I'm not sure about the offense either. There was a McClosky article today talking about getting Amare as a low post threat. I've watched some Suns game, but I don't know that I've even seen the guy posting up. He doesn't seem to have a back-to-the-basket game - a pick and roll game yes, a developing pick and pop game, yes, but not a post game.

    Besides the Pistons hardly ever run post plays and run the pick and roll less than probably any other team - and then to get either a three for Sheed or a long jumper for Dyess - both shots probably out of Amare's range.
     
  7. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    You're right. He isn't. Our best bet on offense would be Stuck/Amare becoming Nash/Amare lite. He does have Dyess range though. He's gotten much better at that shot and lately seems to take that more than actually going into the paint.
     
  8. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Thats why we use AI's expiring contract to get Zaza Pachulia and Ariza.

    Stuckey/Bynum
    Rip/AA/Acker
    Tay/Ariza/Sharpe
    Amare/HANSBROUGH
    Pachulia/Max
     
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    It's all but dead already. We don't play great defense, we just play slow.

    When you adjust for pace, our 106 points allowed per 100 possessions puts us almost as far away from Boston's 101 as we are from Golden State's 112 on the defensive end.

    We are mediocre right now on defense. On offense, we are worse than mediocre. Our 106 per 100 possessions is way behind LAL 115, CLE 113, BOS, 111 and every single other playoff team.


    There shouldn't be this big of a drop off from last year when you look at the players. Last year we were 111 on offense and 103 on defense. It's gotta be the coach.
     
  10. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    Amare wouldn't make Pistons better, so Dumars won't bite. Cap space has far more value now for Pistons.

    Even Langlois admits finally, quietly though, that Pistons can't compete in highest stage in this season.
     
  11. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Here's the only Scenario that I'd agree with regarding bringing Amare Stoudemire to the Pistons:

    Walter Sharpe falls asleep while walking down the aisle aboard Roundball One resulting in him falling forward and accidently dislodging the emergency exit door. When the door flies open, Mike Curry is sucked out the hatch and plummets to his death.

    ...Simultaneously, somewhere in Northern California, Don Nelson suddenly comes to the realization that he loves Michigan winters and wants to realize his lifelong dream of becoming the coach of the Detroit Pistons.
    Joe hires Nelson on the spot.

    …Then, and only then would I think that Amare Stoudemire would be a good fit for the Pistons.
     
  12. max

    max All-Star

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    Whats the alternative? Continue on with this and hope for a new coach next year? Too easy to blame the coach every year.

    Seems like some of you have not enjoyed the Pistons much this year and its highly unlikly to win anything anyway as constructed so why not get Amare if you can?

    For Sheed and Amir - I would do that deal in a second.
     
  13. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    i would love to get amare. he fits in with stuckey and iverson far more than sheed and dice and any of our other bigs. to finally have someone who can and likes to score down low would be a breath of fresh air and a blast to watch.

    if you can get amare for sheed, amir, and a 1st rounder, i don't know how you pass that up...sheed will probably go to SA next year, which means you'd be giving up amir and ~20th pick in the draft to have amare guaranteed for a year and a half.
     
  14. CarlosGallan

    CarlosGallan First Round Draft Pick

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    It is a question of how much valour Amare have 1 year and a half knowing that Detroit can not win the title and not eligible for any quality player draft that year and a half.
    When the Pistons have to give up any first round by Amare + Sheed and Amir, we lose two options for a future that does not qualify for the championship.

    If transferred detroit Sheed for a couple of mid-level but young player, and looks to 2010 with the first round of draft and Amir will be better prepared to sign a Amare or Bosh signed for when we really can not for a long period and a half years in leaf classification.​
     
  15. AI IS GOD

    AI IS GOD Second Round Draft Pick

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  16. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    In actuality it is near dead, but in theory we are still trying to be a 'defensive team". Getting Amare will be the final nail in the coffin, and management couldn't even argue in any shape or form that we are a defense first team. Joe has really disappointed me. Since 2005 it seems that the majority of the moves he made (besides 2 draft picks) have been primarily concerned with offense. It's puzzling to me while the other teams seem to be copying our defense first approach since the championship, we have been going in the opposite direction. And it's not even working yet we continue to do it. You could make an argument that Curry was a throw back to the 'defensive' era, but then we trade for AI.

    I would think he would know what wins being that he played that way.

    I'm also not sure if we can blame Curry entirely. While the team's primarily the same, you have two bad to mediocre defensive guards now averaging 35+. His schemes are not very good (and his rotations are 1st grader esque) but he is working with a few new pieces). Our offense is also not so half-court and predictable (or efficient) which puts tons of pressure on the defense and rarely allows us to set up.

    What primarily scares me about getting Amare is if it's for Sheed it doesn't set us up to be in contention for this year or next, and the possibility that Joe will extend him and max him out. Then we will be like every other team with an overpaid star player who's someone who will be very difficult to build around because you can't win with him being your #1.

    I also don't want to see Amir go nuts in PHX, but that's minor.
     
  17. Latinoking90

    Latinoking90 Bench Warmer

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    Why is cap space more valuable? To get Carlos Boozer or to let it go to waste?

    Why wait until 2010, when we can get one of the prizes right now, and if he works out as planned, resign him to 6 years. And maybe get another big free agent.
     
  18. Latinoking90

    Latinoking90 Bench Warmer

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    We aren't a defense team, because we lost that identity with Ben Wallace.

    I mean he, sheed, and tay, and chauncey were the reason for the defense, but Ben left, Sheed is older, Tay still manages, and Chauncey got traded.

    Honestly, what players are out there who are defensive and are on the trade block? We all wished we had a guy who brings the defense presence BACK to the team, but it hasn't happen yet.

    Did the Wizards and Magic ever thought that Ben Wallace would really become that 4 time DPOY? No they didn't, because they would have kept him. Joe was LUCKY as heck to get him, but you honestly can't expect Joe Dumars to always find that defense first player diamond in the mud.

    Joe Dumars is trying to keep this team competitive and as other NBA Fans and I will say is that Amar'e or Chris Bosh does that.

    This league doesn't even care about defense anymore anyways. If you want proof, just look at Tay never being an all star and Ben Wallace only making the all star 4 times.
     
  19. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    \

    I'm not expecting Joe D to find another Ben Wallace but i do expect him to stop trading for players that play no defense.
    --------
    Whether the league cares about it or not is irrelevant. It's still what wins championships.
     
  20. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Thank you! Why wait indeed? Remember how Boston got KG? They first signed Ray Allen. Without Ray Allen, KG would never have signed with Boston.

    If we can get Stoudemire for Sheed's expiring contract now, why not? I love Sheed, but let's face it. He's done. Most of the times, it feels like watching Jordan in his last season with the Wizards. Flashes of brilliance and visions of dominant play one out of 10 games.

    When you get a guy like Stoudemire now, you are more likely to attract another big FA in 2010. None of those big name guys will leave their current franchise for a loser team.

    Just for pondering: let's say we get Amare for SHeed's contract + Amir as it's being rumored and we let AI walk this summer. For next season we'll have:
    - Stuckey,Rip,Prince,Stoudemire (and probably Kwame) as the starting 5
    - McDyess, Maxiell, AA, Bynum coming off the bench
    - $20M cap space

    That's not a bad situation to be in. Granted the bench is kinda thin, but we can spend some of the cap space to land a swingman. (Grant Hill is a FA in 2009)

    I think that would put us in a decent position for the 2010 FA class.

    OPTION A: You sign Wade, and trade Rip for a center.
    OPTION B: You sign LeBron, and trade Prince+ for a center.
    OPTION C: You keep what you have and go after Bosh.
    OPTION D: Assuming you miss out on all premium FAs, you keep what you have and sign Tyson Chandler or Brad Miller, and use whatever cap space left over to add depth to your bench.
    OPTION E: You sign Okur in 09 and then use whatever cap space left to add depth to your bench and pass on the 2010 FA market.
    OPTION F: In 2010, you do a sign and trade to swap Rip with Jason Kapono, sign Richard Jefferson and then let Amare walk so you can sign Darko to a max deal. (Hey, it is the option F after all :graduate:)
     

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