Joe's mistakes

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by TWOTIMESRALPHI, Jun 16, 2007.

  1. Woody

    Woody All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    439
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Bloomington, IL
    It seems that a few points need to be made:

    1. The NBDL did not exist while Darko was here, or he would have spent 1-2 years there developing. Since it wasn't, he had to develope on an NBA team that featured five integral parts (plus) Dyess. There was no super star to work around. The team only played up to potential when all five parts were playing. It's down to four parts now, but the same basic premise still applies.

    2. Joe believes that the current team can still compete at a high level. Perhaps even win the regular season Eastern title. He's not going to make major changes on the off chance that they MIGHT produce and ECF winner.

    3. That means that AJ an Jmax will still only get marginal time because when they play, some of our top four have to sit, and Flip is afraid we won't win if they play very much.

    4. Young players develop in one of two ways: one, their team sucks at their position so they the get a lot of chances to play, or; two, a regular get injured badly enough that the rookie gets an extended opportunity.
    So far, neither of these has happened to the Pistons for FOUR years!!!
    Perhaps, we need to pray for a serious injury that would keep one of our four out for two-three months. Flip/Joe would have no recourse but to play our get new blood.

    I'm not enamured with Flip, but as long as our four stay healthy, we're not going to develop anyone very well!!
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,551
    Likes Received:
    2,411
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Woody, you make some great points.

    But wouldn't you say that Saunders + Time x Attrition have lowered expectations to the point where just making the ECF would be a pleasant surprise to the organization next year?

    My buddies like The Low are in a championship or bust mentality, but when the team is simply not good enough (based on past results) at one point, we all have to adjust, Joe included.
     
  3. Woody

    Woody All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    439
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Bloomington, IL
    Roscoe:

    I don't think our Chatroom folks are interested in adjusting their views or expectations!!!

    I think the Pistons have peaked (probably during the LB reign), and are slowly moving back to the pack. As long as the four (CB, Rip ,Sheed, and Tay) continue to stay healthy, we'll be a tough team to beat by all except the very top level teams.

    However, we're not at the same level as the Spurs. We don't have a Duncan. Instead, we have four Jumpshooters. We play decent defense in spurts, and, if the jumpshots are dropping, we can give anyone a tough game. Why should Dumars mess with that???

    Our only real hope is that AJ becomes a stud, and a couple of draft picks sudddenly blossom. Otherwise, its going to be the same ol' same ol'.
     
  4. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southfield, MI
    Man, that's just sick. True, but sick. :yukpuke:
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,551
    Likes Received:
    2,411
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    I don't think it is sick.

    Hopefully we see a change both in the players and the organization now.

    Saunders is building a convincing body of work in Detroit that even when given the pieces, he is unable to manage them or out-scheme the defensive coaches in the East.

    Joe, with revised expectations now has a mountain to climb again. Maybe it existed the last 3 seasons, but it seems that he now grasps that the same old, won't be getting it done.

    And one can only hope, that anyone of the players who thought they were "all that and a bag of chips" now clues into the fact that they can't call themselves paper champs. This one is the most questionable, but with some re-allocated minutes, and another quality rotation player, complacency may give way to urgency, either for their own minutes, or their own pride.
     
  6. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    9,649
    Likes Received:
    475
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kiev - Farmington Hills, MI - Santa Clara, CA
    Roscoe, I'll believe it when I see it. Until I see AJ, J-Max, and #15 get extended minutes it is all water under the bridge. We've heard many things from Pistons. Granted, Joe's never been this vocal before, but I say lets wait and see.
     
  7. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,860
    Likes Received:
    803
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Funny during Joe's tenure we've pretty much been one of the 4 best teams in the league, yet we want to throw him under a bus. Move to Milw, NJ, or Ind and see what a real DUMB GM is. The only GM in the league CLEARLY better than Joe is Bryan Colangelo (what he's been able to do twice in two completely different situations is amazing). RC Buford rolled the dice twice and got lucky with Parker and Ginobli, remember Duncan was given to them as well as Robinson. SA keeps attracting vets because of Duncan, not mgmt. Joe has only made 2 FLAT OUT MISTAKES in his career 1-drafting Rodney White and drafting Darko. White could have easily been Joe Johnson, and Darko....well....well......it's not even so much that Darko wasn't as good as we thought he would be, but damn the guys we didn't draft turn out to be pure studs....

    Wade, Bosh, Melo, Hinrich. And before you question Hinrich remember this.....if he's on our team, then he doesn't play for the Bulls. If we drafted Wade then we never lose to Miami....ever, in a minute we'll be saying the same about Bosh. It's not so much that they would've done alot as Pistons but at least they don't play for the other guys.
     
  8. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,424
    Likes Received:
    420
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    Kreg - I don't know if anyone if throwing him under the Bus. I see you point, there are bad GM's out there that would not have been able to accomplish what Dumars has.

    Dumars is also not above critisism and I think it can do some good.

    5 straight trips to the ECF is impressive. Losing 3 of those when you had homecourt is not. Thats wasted opportunities. The last 2 can be attributed to a basic disconnect between Dumars and his coach.

    Dumars starts each year with a seemingly good plan but his philosophy of not interferring with the coach wastes many of those moves. This time we are seeing somewhat of a change in that philosophy and I hope he sticks with it and sets and enfources his goals and standards for the players and coaches to follow.

    Botton line - the buck does stop with him.
     
  9. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,860
    Likes Received:
    803
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Max- you're right, he's not above criticism by no means. But when I read stuff like it's time for him to go OMG that's moronic at best. Joe has a GREAT mgmt approach in the fact that he never inteferes during the season, and asesses over the summer. This summer is probably the 1st summer in a while where he has to really be pro-active in structuring the team in his vision, and that started with shipping Carlos and putting the word out that NO ONE is untouchable this year, no "I won't trade the Core" BS this summer, gotta love that.
     

Share This Page