Jonas Jerebko vs. Amir Johnson

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Dec 7, 2009.

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Jonas Jerebko vs. Amir Johnson

Poll closed Mar 7, 2010.
  1. Amir Johnson

    6.3%
  2. Jonas Jerebko

    84.8%
  3. Too close to call / undecided

    5.1%
  4. Don Reid

    3.8%
  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Pretty sure his Boston Celtics would have been plenty happy adding Amare to their team and Bill Simmons would have passed out with joy.


    Amare's +/- has always been very high as well. I think that part of the problem and the gap that we are having observationally lies in physical talent/ athleticism vs. polish.

    When you have a big man like Amare or Amir, they add a lot of value in ways that aren't easy to quantify. 2 shot blocks in the first half is more than that... even if there are a couple fouls thrown in too. It also deters the other team from penetrating after that and allows your other defenders to cheat out further on the perimeter. Some rebounds that don't look spectacular wouldn't have been gathered in by somebody else. A dunk in traffic for Amare might be a contested miss for Charlie V.

    On the other hand, it is very easy to identify specific mistakes that a big man makes. Most times, big men are less skilled than other players (b/c they can be in the NBA without the complete package) and they can do things that look clumsy. Yet, they can still be very effective overall.

    I really don't think the Suns would have been a better team over the last 5 years if they would have waived Amare.
  2. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'll gladly eat my words when Amir has his long awaited breakout season, starts playing more than a 2 quarters a game and becomes a REAL difference maker for a team. Until then, he is still a could've been in my opinion.

    He's essentially Darko, but with a good attitude.
  3. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Yeah...that's the reason you have to watch the games. If you do, I think it's obvious that Amir isn't a difference maker...no matter what spin you want to put on the stats.
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    And if we throw out all "per x minutes" stats and put him at a huge minutes handicap (he's played 700 and Bosh is at 1,500 for instance)... and let's even throw out "per game" stats, then here is how he has produced this year:

    TOTAL CUMMULATIVE PRODUCTION
    games played: all 41 (1 of 4 players)
    FG%: 2nd behind Nesterovich, who has played 190 some minutes.
    Free throw attepts: 6th (despite having the lowest usage rate)
    Offensive rebounds: 2nd (slightly behind Bosh)
    Total rebounds: 3rd
    Steals: 3rd (ahead of guys like Turk, Bosh, Calderone, Bargnani, etc)
    Blocks: 3rd

    This is why his stats are so eye popping when you convert them to minutes played... because they are good anyway in 1/2 the minutes of the other leaders.

    The equivelant ranking guys on our team are as follows:
    played in all games: Ben Wallace/ Rodney Stuckey
    FG%: Wilcox
    6th in FTA: Villanueva/ Jerebko tie
    2nd in Offensive rebounds: Jerebko
    3rd in Total rebounds: Jerebko
    3rd in Steals: Jerebko
    3rd in Blocks: Daye (behind Ben W and Charlie V)

    Over the last 10 games, Amir is +78, which works out to +20 points for every 48 minutes of gametime for him. Over that span, they are 7-3 with 2 of their losses coming against the Celtics and being close games. And of course, one of the wins was a 30 point drubbing of Detroit.
  5. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Starter 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    you american sportsfans truly have a love- affair with statistics.
  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think that is mainly because there is actual scoring in our sports.
  7. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    :pound::pound:

    Laser guided bomb
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Last 10 game average:

    Stat:Jonas/Amir
    Min: 27.4/ 18.3
    Pts: 8.4/ 7.4
    Reb: 5.5/ 5.3
    Ast: 1.0/ 0.7
    Stl: 0.3/ 0.7
    Blk: 0.4/ 0.4
    fg%: .300/ .705
    FTA: 2.3/ 2.3

    Over that span, Jonas shot 32-70 while Amir shot 31-44.

    Very close total production with very different minutes. Higher efficiency for AJ.

    Amir is now the 3rd big on a playoff team. Since he is a FA after this season, what do you think happens to him? Do the Raps try to lock him up, or do they let him go to the market? What kind of salary will the market give him? He's been very solid this year and on fire lately, but he still leads the NBA in foul rate... his achilles.
  9. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Irregardless of age, Jerebko is in year #1 of the NBA. Amir is in his 3rd season.
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    5th season.
  11. max

    max All-Star

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    Heard on the radio today that Keuster has given JJ the starting PF spot.
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think his game fits much better there. Prince (when healthy) does totally different things that JJ. Jonas is a hustler who likes to get in the paint and rebound.
  13. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Hate to pigeon hole JJ as just a PF... he's done nice things at SF also.
  14. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    I've been meaning to mention that it seems to me that Tay and Jonas seem to play really well together. Jerebko just attacks the boards, makes smart cuts into the lanes, which fits Tay's back it in make a play or shoot over a too short defender and settle himself outside the paint style. They're also interchangeable on defense.
  15. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I don't think it his pigeoning JJ as a PF. It is more of rewarding JJ as a starter. He certainly deserves it.
  16. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Nice job. Just making sure you were paying attention. :pound:
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He has the ability to shoot 30% ish from 3-point land I would say. But he should really not be looking for the shot as his first or second option. His shot selection has been smart and he's taking some really open 3's, which are good shots in those situations.

    But his most impressive quality IMO is similar to what Amir did with us, in that he hustles like crazy and creates opportunities for himself and the team that wouldn't have existed otherwise. Just hanging around the rim and having no fear of sticking his nose in traffic results in a lot of easy put-back buckets, rebounds, tip-outs, etc. It also tends to collapse the defense because they will get burned if they lose track of him.

    And Jonas has showed a lot of skill in some of his close range finishes. He's using the rim to block defenders, going off high glass with spin, and making those tough short bunnies without using glass too. His hook is a work in progress though and has been pretty ugly. But I agree that he needs to develop it in order to get some of his shots off against the trees of the league.

    Jonas would be one of the most physical SF's in the league and he has above average finesse for a PF. He's a 3.75.
  18. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Does that mean he's ineligible for the rook-soph game? The NBA has an agenda against Amir, I tell ya.
  19. Brap

    Brap Starter

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    Jonas's superb agility, excellent ability to move his feet on D, his ability to jump quickly, and his ability to contort his body into bizarre angles when stretching out and jumping, his very good length - plus his consistently great effort, makes him one of the more unique and talented defenders in the league.

    If (when) he gets physically stronger, he might be able to give power forwards fits. But right now, I love him defending 3's.
  20. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    I think he fits the PF role perfectly. He needs more strength and experience but he will become a very good PF. I think the other reason for this move may be the high expectations of Daye. With Daye at the 3 and JJ at the 4 we could be competitive against most teams. They both need experience and some muscle but I think this sets us up for the future.

    JJ can still punish a defender that forgets about him at the 3 point line but he has a hard-nosed style of play similar to Ben with more touch.

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