Joyless Pistons basketball?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Dec 7, 2006.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    From McCoskey's blog that is not a blog. Your thoughts?

    DETNEWS | Weblog | Pistons

     
  2. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    The loss of BBeen was a punch to the chest. It's going to be awhile be fore we find out who we are.
     
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    No Ben = No fun?

    That sounds like BS to me. I thought Ben was the grumpy malcontent Piston. I saw him hustle shake and bake some dude last week, and he was all high fives and hip-hip-hoorays!

    One thing I gotta say. We can't get somber or down here.
     
  4. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    BBeen with a S & B that is reason for celebration.
     
  5. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I said in the Portland thread that this team doesn't know how to kick someone when they're down, that they just don't get embarassed regardless of how foolish they look on the floor. One or the other of the players has shown some spunk at times during the season so far, but nothing consistent and no more than one at a time.

    I've even called them tin-men wandering through Oz looking for a wizard to give them a heart. The Low (and others) will suggest that is the job of the coach and you need look no farther. That's right as far as it goes, but I'm not sure I believe that even with ----- (insert firebrand future HOF coach of your choice) much will change because I'm not sure all the players want to meet a coach halfway. (And perhaps I'm being unfair to the players, but so be it.)

    I think McCloskey could be right and I'm not sure how you go about fixing it. I think Flip's Xs and Os are good enough, and I think Nazr with Dice and others behind him is good enough. I'm just not sure the hearts (including Flip's) are good enough. And as for the fans at the Palace - maybe they're like animals who can sense a disaster before it hits.
     
  6. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I've never been to a game, so I can't really comment on that aspect of it.

    I can only speak for myself, obviously, but for me I kind of felt it starting in the Cavs series last year. It was that little feeling I had deep down that this could be the beginning of the end.

    Its just seemed to snowball since then. The Miami series made it worse. Then Ben leaving. Then the crack down on T's. The team's slow start this season and Flip's refusal to play the bench.

    The future isn't looking like all roses either. Our Orlando pick is looking worse and worse each game. CB is a free agent this season. We have very few tradeable assets. No cap room. etc. etc.

    I don't want to sound all doom and gloom. Heck, we could still win the championship this season. Our core group is still young. We have some potential on the bench.

    I'm just saying that for me personally, I lost that sense of invincibility/innocence last season. I feel like 1 false move could send us crashing back to the Teal Years, but at the same time, I also feel like we're only 1 solid move away from regaining that swagger.
     
  7. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Excellent summary. It's a weird place to be isn't it?
     
  8. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    What has become crystal clear is that we're lacking an energy player... someone with raw athletisism that can make things happen just by his quickness and hustle.
    They look like they're just plodding along... I could count on one hand how many times Chauncey has made a transition bucket.... even when they create T.O's they slowly set it up in their half court sets.
    We need a player that can pick pockets and motor down for the highest % shot in the game (dunks)... if the player has a quick first step he'll get to the line (the 2nd highest % shot).

    They're playing boring/predictable ball right now.... this is why Carlisle never won anything big.
     
  9. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Allen Iverson...anyone?
     
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    AI plays hard, but he doesn't seem to have much "joy" either. He's all chip-on-shoulder energy.

    How about using Dupree's energy in the same way that the Magic use Bo Outlaw?
     
  11. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    "But crowds have seemed more lifeless than I can remember since the Pistons banned the teal."

    Crowd's need one of two things, hope or attitude. The hope that your team is going to get better. Tigers had it following their great start. The attitude that you know you're going to win. Pistons used to have it.

    But Flip has taken hope and attitude away. Darko's gone, Delfino gets squat minutes, JMax and Amir are DNP's. And considering last year's collapse, the loss of Ben, and Flip burning out the starters, who believes we're going to win.

    Detroit's fan base sees a team starting a slow moving downward spiral into Teal. That doesn't sell tickets.

    The easiest thing for Joe to fix is get JMax and Amir some PT and can Flip, at least he can bring some hope back.
     
  12. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    They miss their defense . . . . and Ben. You ever notice how when there's a clear path to the basket Prince looks disgusted, and Rasheed just looks helpless. It's like sometimes they play great defense for a possession and then they don't/can't ? get the rebound. Then they get frustrated and seem to give up. Nobody likes this small ball crap, and it seems like the only person who likes playing for Flip/his style is Chauncey b/c he can just jack up shots whenever he wants. There's no accountability, and they look like they actually miss somebody yelling at them and telling them what to do every possession.

    You see them trying to play like they used to w/ LB; half-court sets, slowing the game down, and they no longer have the personnel to do it. Also they're "running game" was based on their defense (turn-overs, blocks etc.). We're not the Phoenix Suns with quick players, depth, and fantastic shooters. We can't play like them. It's like we're stuck in the middle. We're just mediocre. We have good players but no system, identity.

    Plus, our coach sucks, and has the inability to maximize talent and play to the strenghts of the players. Also we don't have great one-on one players so i don't know why we have 500 ISO's a game. What we used to have was great ball movement.

    We can't compete for a championship with the team as is, and the players know it.

    And playing all starters 40 min a game isn't helping anything.
     
  13. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Not all starters. Nazr should be well rested for the playoffs. :P
     
  14. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Remember how hard LB worked to get them to push the ball up the floor? He used to outrun Chauncey to the half court line yelling go-go-go and windmilling his arm like he want to take off.

    Hence my desire to see Delfino or Prince running the point sometimes.
     
  15. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    yessir! In addition, a lot of people came back to the team or got turned on to the team because of that blue collar going to work attitude...now its a bunch of allstars coasting their way to a mediocre finish.
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Rip played PG in college sometimes.

    Seriously though, folks ragged a lot on Larry about his offense, but I remember when he came in, and it was specifically to get the team out of the Carlisle drudgery that merc brought up.

    That is where we miss Lindsey, because despite all his shortcomings, he's a high motor, energy player, someone who will push the ball and cause chaos (both for and against).

    I'm so tired of beating this point, because as lee says, our coach is completely oblivious to the idea of playing his bench, but maybe Blalock is this guy.

    Then again, based upon the latest Darko interview from Serbia, Joe is strictly hands off and lets his coaches coach.

    I've been back and forth on Flip, argued with The Low until I wanted to fly to Vegas and wrestle him on the strip and now I can kinda see some of his point. The players need to be coached. I don't care who you are, the coach has to get into someone's face, the only guys Flip seems to coach are Jmax and Delfino when he pulls them out of the game.

    I got laughed at in chat for this, but when we had Mike James and Arroyo, Chauncey heard footsteps behind him. If he didn't play to plan, there was someone else the coach **could** bring in. Forget how good James or Arroyo are compared to Chaunce, just consider that players consider their PT sacred, and no amount of camarderie overcomes the selfishness that players have over courttime.

    Chuck Daly once said that being a coach in the NBA was the ultimate CEO job. You have a bunch of guys who all want 48 minutes and 48 shots, and they can get you fired.

    Perhaps the narcissism that all great coaches have is necessary to overcome the collective egoes of their players.
     
  17. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    What I hate is how these Pistons were once the hardworking, "untalented" team who won games. They always would say and know that this was the best way to go that they were better than any other team or they would make themselves better than any other team. Now this team is starting to do a complete 180 and go against what made them winners.

    Why does this team all of a sudden think that you don't need a great defense to win? It felt like yesterday when a player or LB would go up after a game saying "We only shot 25%, but that doesn't matter because we keep playing good defense. Now a Pistons will say" We only shot 30% and the ball didn't roll our way." Its pathetic because it seems like they totally forgot who they are.

    I never thought the Piston style was ugly. In fact I like the ugly "lockdown" defense much more than offense. When I play in a game it gets me more pumped to get a big steal, block, or charge rather than a jumper. If I don't score you don't score that's what I loved about this team. Now the mentality is shifting to well if you scored I'll score on you too then.

    I think this Piston team can win a championship, but they have to play every guy and give their 100% every time. Sheed has stepped up to help heal the loss of Ben. If Flip actually does what he said he would a month ago than this team will be on the right path, but if this pathetic coaching continues this team is going to fall of the edge.
     
  18. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Time for a shake up...how about Joe demanding Flip start Blalock, Delfino, AJ, Jmax & Davis against the Mavs tonight? That might get the attention of a few people.
     
  19. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Part of me says hell yeah step in Joe... but the realistic side says Joe is a man of principle who has comited to not undemining his coach... if this continues (likely with Mavs & Magic) there should be a meeting of the minds... like Iraq you don't continue taking a losing path.
    The next two games should be a true litmus.... If we get run out then we should have enough data to make a call.... everyone should agree that the schedule has been fairly soft so far.
     
  20. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Do I look like Leon Phelps to you?

    You got laughed at because it sounded like you were praising them for their ability to spook Chauncey into playing like the MVP of the Finals. When in reality is was the fact that LB would yank his %%%%% in favor of James or Arroyo to get the message across.
     

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