LB's an Ass

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mercury, Sep 16, 2005.

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  1. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    I'm starting to buy into the fact that LB mistreated Darko.
    The public comments are well documented.
    You couldn't help but notice Larry yelling at Darko almost everytime he was in the game... then Chaunceys comments... ball don't lie!

    Some might say if you stop paying attention to someone you just don't care about them anymore.
    Reminds me of my last boss (ever)... what a prick he was... everyone was walking on pins and needles... when he entered the room it was a suck up fest.
    But he demanded success and he got it... end results was a profitable company with pissed off employees ...because people tried hard to please him.
    Everyone reacts differently to critisism... Darko may be the sensitive type that just goes into his shell...
    Chauncey is more like...oh yea, I'll show him!
    What's the point?
    Enter Flip... players coach (Micro touched on this earlier)...
    Darko could very well respond to him... and flourish with the softer approach and encouragement... whereas guys like Sheed and Rip could respond with more freedom to do thier own thing... which could be detrimental to the team.
    Ben is completely self motivated... Prince is working hard this summer knowing it's his contract year...
    As the old saying goes...watch what you ask for you just might get it, applys here.
    Would you rather have a bastard with results or a nice guy that tries to please everyone?
    We can only hope that this team is mature enough take the tough love and BBall IQ that LB instilled along with the empowerment and offensive philosophy of Flip.

    What do you think ...better or worse?
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Better in the season, I'm spooked about the post-season.

    Flip is going to need his A-Game coaching to get us somewhere worth talking about. We have a minimum of 3 tough series to win a championship coming out of the East.

    That's why I never got hung up on LB or how he dealt with people. I really wanted to win. Personalities, names, individual accolades mean little to me. I just get off on seeing the banner raised at the Palace and everyone in the league saying we are the team to beat.

    Maybe I am a soulless jerk.

    Anyway, back to Flip, this dude really, and I mean really owes his career to Kevin McHale. He's had a pretty mediocore run in Minny, most places just making the playoffs and losing the first round 3 years in a row is a greyhound ticket. Flip got away with losing in the first round for SEVEN straight years.

    I hope and pray he can be good. I refuse to believe that our guys just need T.L.C. and a shoulder to cry on to spark a successful title run.
  3. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    I would rather have the basketball GENIUS with results. I don't care for nice guys who "try hard". I want tough employees who can handle presssure from up top that will be 5 times tougher than anything they'll see out in the field. I don't want a bunch of guys that failed but get a pat on the back because they tried really hard.
  4. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    First choice: Cool coach/winning team
    second choice: Jerk coach/winning team
    Next: Cool coach/losing team
    Last: Jerk coach/losing team


    Wasn't Chuck Daly a good guy? He did very well with the Pistons. Plus he had a really poor record with the low talent Cavaliers prior to coming to Detroit. So maybe we will get our first choice with Flip. :pray:
  5. bricalz

    bricalz First Round Draft Pick

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    Lb

    Larry Larry Larry.....

    The problem with Larry Brown is that he had his way. He effectively made it look like the right way by winning in 2004 which I was so thankful for. His knowledge of the X and O's of the game is unquestioned.

    But he created too much drama. And drama is distraction from a workman Piston team.

    He pushed for players that he liked but not necessarily fit in. His head is great in the game but he shouldn't be on the management desk. He bashed players as a form of motivation regardless of how the player would react to it. On some players it will work on some it will just backfire. His only asset is that he makes it work on the court.

    I'm pulling for Flip. He is an underrated coach and has as large a chip on his shoulder as the rest of the Pistons. He will produce. He will coach. He will zone. He will make them have extra offense options. It may not be as fancy as what LB's sets may be, but I'm sure they'll still be using some of them, but Flip's plays are not all bad. What he had in Minny was a team that featured KG and nobody else. No glue, no team.

    Here he has a chance, and he has a really good team. Let's see what he can do and pull for the guy. Coz I, too, would like to have a good guy coach and a great team. :)
  6. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Amen. This ain't little league anymore.

    I had written a very lengthy diatribe in response to merc's original thread, but it vanished when I went to send it...

    In brief summary:

    1) Darko was figuratively plucked from the LL in regard to his maturity level.
    2) LB's Letterman comments WERE crass
    3) I still like LB, IRREGARDLESS of his inability to coach DMC to the end of his adolescence.
    4) Loyalty within sports organizations is LONNNNNG GONE...with the advent of $$$contracts, caps, & CBA's...sports are purely business & legalities now...sad to say.
    5) Darko has the skills, the support of his teammates, and the belief in him by the organization.
    6) All Darko has to do is play...

    Hopefully Pistonville will rejoice in victory once again after being the cognizant recipients of lessons learned from the good (Flip), the bad (LB), and the ugly (everything that transpired in between this summer).
  7. max

    max All-Star

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    Mercs Boss

    What Mercury wrote really gets to the core of the LB problem. Years ago I had a boss that like and I definetly saw it in LB. Always having that one employee to abuse. Some call it demanding perfection but in reality all it really is singling out an individual to bully around. Last season it was Darko. Season before we saw it in Okur. Briefly in Prince for a bit like that one time LB said Prince did not deserve to start and threatened benched him for Ham. And Prince did not even do anything wrong

    Now. It is a different world when we are talking NBA players. Its not like some shlub who needs his paycheck to survive. But still that one player or players that LB singles out will want to leave the team. So every season LB is going to drive someone away.

    Its a very immature way to act.
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Max, that is very true, but when you put it into business terms and perhaps relate it to your past employment perspectives, you have to remember the role we play.

    We are your boss's customer. We don't see the workers up close, understand all of the friendships and differences first hand. The product we buy is basketball, and hopefully winning basketball.

    Can anyone here honestly say that they dropped an important purchase based upon staff/management interaction? Is it a regular part of your thinking process when buying entertainment?

    Sometimes we are too close to the action IMO. We over analyze and not pick over things we do not consider in our normal day-to-day experiences.

    Nonetheless, what LB said on national TV was classless and undeserved.
  9. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    They don't pay coaches to be nice to people...of course if Rick Carlisle had been nicer to the office staff he wouldn't have lost his job? Kind of a strange paradox there. Carlisle got good results but was faulted for his lack of tact in dealing with people. Brown was a catheter wearing bastard who won us a championship.

    I think most fans don't care about wether or not the coach is a weiner as long as he is a winner. Face it we are all ready to dump guys from our team in an instant if they can be replaced. Look at a guy like Ronald Dupree. A good guy who has worked hard to make it on to the Pistons roster...came up with a monster game at the end of last season to make the playoff roster. None of us care if he is a good guy or not...same goes for the coach.

    Kevin McHale was a long time friend of Flip Saunders but that didn't stop him from firing Flip because the Wolves weren't getting results. There is no long term payoff for a coach to be a nice guy...give me bastard Larry any day if he can win a championship.
  10. BigDaddy

    BigDaddy First Round Draft Pick

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    Ya LB got results but he was a %%%% IMO to call the players out in the media that's stuff you take care of in house.I think that's what maybe put a rift between him and the players.

    Someone touched on it earlier Daly got results out of his teams in Detroit even though he was percieved as a players coach.We don't know what goes on every practice or behind closed doors.Maybe Joe sees something in Flip,not a mad overlord but a players coach who can run a veteran team that knows how to win.
  11. Abe Froemen

    Abe Froemen First Round Draft Pick

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    lb/flip

    The reason joe brought in lb is the fact that he was a great teacher if they were up and missed a play lb was teaching/coaching the players to get the play right next time. I will not knock lb on his teaching abillity , he is great at that because he loves the game. Having said that dont most coaches love the game why would they put themselves through the hell that they go through ( rudy t and his health ) the late nights of breaking down games the media scrutiny dealing with players coaches trainers what have you the list is big. So if you are questioning Flips love of the game the easy way out is not to coach here take a pass on the pistons and coach the blazers or sonics or cavs or whoever but not here because of the demands it will carry. his lack of success in minny is due to not having a better supporting cast for kg the year that kg got the help they made it to the conference finals. After that success players were unhappy with not the coach but the $$$$$$$$$$ and things broke down. Why is it Flips fault that manegment could not settle the issue maybe extend a contract or offer more incentives . His lack of success very well could be to our gain. Last I checked lb did not have any rings before he coached us so ultimitley he was in the same boat as flip. He entered a team with high expectations and delivered why cant flip do the same because he couldt win it all with minny comon give me a break . If Flip can make our bench better doesnt that make our team better ? If he can use the players Joe gives him rather than letting them sit on the bench because HE DOES NOT LIKE THEM doesnt that make our team better. If we lose to Miami or Indy is it because of Flip or is it that they have a better team with more talent. Why dog the guy for losing when he has not even stepped on the court yet
  12. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    With all the griping LB does on the sideline (and I have never been able to figure this out), why do some of you insist that LB never said any of these things to guys in practice or in the huddle? Do you honestly believe that LB hasn't chewed Delfino's a$$ 200 times in practice? Do you think he's NEVER reminded Darko to stop ducking when someone is putting 2 pts down on the back of his neck? C'mon people.....it's naieve (sp?) to think that LB saying stuff to the media is the 1st time they've heard of it.

    I'm willing to put my money on the fact that it's the last straw and he's tired of talking to them. He's probably hoping that maybe talking to the press about it will piss them off enough to get them to do it right, not go into a shell and stop responding like a 3 yr old who hides under the sheets.:director:
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think making upwards of $20 million dollars in a career is why they do it. Figure Flip had 9 years in Minny. He made at least $2 million a year. In his career, he'll likely clear $40 million dollars.

    I'll take the late nights and scrutiny. Where do I sign?

    If you are trying to convince me that it's better to have loser than a winner because the loser has more to gain, :doh: :doh: :doh: .

    Not really. LB had made the Finals before, and gotten out of the first round several times. If you say just winning championships, yeah. But in every other way, LB was a more successful playoff coach than Flip before he came to Detroit.

    It depends upon whether he is playing them to rest starters or to play patty cake with the bench guys. There is no way you are going to convince me that Evans or Delfino should be playing more than Rip. Same thing with almost all of the starters. If we have the best starting 5, they need rest, they don't need replacing. You win by having your best players on the court as much as possible.

    If we lose to Miami or Indy, it is Flip's fault. LB never lost to Miami or Indy. I've heard over and over and over again. When we win, it's the players, when we lose it's the coach. LB lost to SA and now he is gone.

    If Flip loses in the Eastern Conference, he's a bum and putting out the same results he got in Minny. The only excuse he will have is if there is a serious injury. Joe has done everything this year for Flip that he did not do for LB last year. Better quality depth, and a strong draft.

    I don't care how people shake it out. In fact, Darko looks more and more like a contributor, but if Flip can't flat out coach a championship squad and we come up short, he can get the heck out of dodge. I won't take solace in how much he played Delfino or Acker or Rueben Boumtje Boumtje.
  14. max

    max All-Star

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    No believe me it was not what you think. This was a lady supervisor of mine back in 1991-92. Her efforts were not condusive to a more productive work environment.

    Now regarding LB. Is it beneficial to the francise to drive players away each year? If we had kept LB Darko would have had to be traded. No mistake about that.
  15. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Well, primarily it's not Flip's fault LB and the Pistons couldn't get along, however, LB was NEVER in the same boat as Flip. If you put LB and Flip in a coaching interview (let's say before either of them got here) there isn't a GM on planet earth that would hire Flip over LB (well, except maybe in Portland). There is no confusing that LB is far above a better coach that Flip even BEFORE the title.

    Flip using the bench doesn't necessarily make us better if he can't get the same production out of the starters that LB got. They are much more important. If we lose to MIA or IND it IS because of Flip because we have beaten IND years in a row with the talent we currently have and LB. We also beat MIA (minus their changes) with the talent we have and LB's rotations. They have been proven to work, irregardless of his personal likes/dislikes on the roster.

    It's not a personal dig at Flip, it's a disatisfaction with taking a step backwards in coaching talent for non-basketball reasons and if your goal is to win, then you don't force out the winners (LB) just so you can have the guys you really like (Flip / Darko).
  16. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    Blue 38, Alma Mater 0 At The Half(sigh!)

    :frusty: ...anyway...decided to see what u birds were chirping at...I like Flip based on Billy D's premise that LB was getting bigger than the team. Chuck was never never never never ever a distraction. Even as nice as Lb could be , he was always the story, because he's LB. Not dat dat's his fault (i personally never talk to the press) but he's NBA history. A legend...Flip just needs to be Chuck,,uh, I mean, Flip! And let's set a goal of excellence...60-22 Division , Conference and League Champs...(I dont believe in that"World" stuff anymore!):yo:
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I agree and understand. My point is, we don't own the team. We are on the other side of the counter. We scrutinize and get hyper excited over every minor piece of news or obscure photograph.

    I'll bet dollars to cents, that most people taking in the game at the Palace with their kids do not over analyze the work place dynamics of the team like we do.

    And with that in mind, if we don't overcrutinize every entertainment puchase we make like this, should it really affect the enjoyment we gain from watching, and winning? I'm posing the question, not forcing a conclusion so feel free to answer towards it.

    I know you don't (max) but so many people get hung up on Darko and how this franchise will cease to exist if he doesn't develop or decides to leave.

    On Darko being traded, if it brings back picks or players that help us win and continue winning, how is that a bad thing? Darko is not the last big basketball player ever. There will be more. I promise.
  18. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    trade the dark one!!!

    :mad2: Muh-hahahahahahahha!:mad2: Yessss, he must go. To much focus on what he "could be". Yes? Ummhm?...I get feeelings sometimes about players moving on and i see a deal invoving The Darkness, Prince(hey-my name is prince played in the purple one's hometown), Sheed and Kgarnett...Hmmmm?mmm?..(feelin like yoda today:yo: ) Why is the name "Andre St. Laurent " in my head?......
  19. max

    max All-Star

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    Microwave

    How this thread started. I did not start it.
    My point was that unless you inherited a ton of cash and never had to work a day in your life or went right into your own business then you have had a boss before.

    Now maybe you have gotten lucky and have had reasonable bosses. But those that have had a bad one whether if its at McDonalds when you were 16 or more recent in your professional career. Then you can understand more of what Okur, Darko, Delfino, and others have gone through with LB. Hence the thread name LB is an ass.
  20. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Is there a link or an article somewhere on this?
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