LB's an Ass

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mercury, Sep 16, 2005.

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  1. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    In my view, without the best coach in the L, we are only a "good" team. Not a championship contender. I've always said, the players alone have the talent to be 2nd rounders at worst, Conference Finalists at best with almost no chance to get to the Finals. With LB, that bumped them from Conference Finalists at best to NBA Finalists at best with results up in the air. We happened to go 1 for 2 so I was ok with that. However, there's no way Flip is going to be more proficient with the X's and O's than LB was, that will cost us some games. So, if LB was able to pull 54 games out of this squad. It's only natural that Flip would muster 49 to 50.

    Flip will not have the attention to detail on D that LB had (he said so himself when proclaiming that these guys already knew how to defend). He is primarily going to focus on playing zone (which killed us the last two years) and opening up the offense, which won't matter if you aren't focusing on shutting other teams down. Many fans will be thrilled with seeing more points on the board, but will ultimately be left disappointed at the end of the year with all the expectation and potential not being realized, in my opinion. This team will probably be labeled at "more exciting" than before, but they won't acheive nearly as much.
     
  2. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Its NOT all about the coach.
     
  3. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    There is hope!

    So when we got Sheed after we already had LB were you thinking..."we should be champs"? And don't you think that the addition of Sheed w/Flip makes us a better team than we were without Sheed w/Carlisle?

    We still have the best starting five in the league, in my humble opinion.


    You are probably right about alot of these observations, but jeesh....can we be a little bit more optimistic? :) We are really depending on our team to play alot better and more consistent than they did last year to be successful. I think we can only look and hope for Saunders not to harm what we've already established. (Championship defense) Unless something drastic happens, I really don't think we will know what we have here until the playoffs start. Flip has shown that he can put together a strong regular season, so I wouldn't be overly concerned with that aspect. In fact, our regular season performance may ultimately be the deciding factor this year as I think home court advantage will be imperative this time around. Let's all cross our fingers and try to stay optimistic!
     
  4. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Some of you guys are killing me. How could you guys think a coach will make a team so much worse. Especially on a campionship team were the players know what they're doing.
     
  5. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Here's a question...has there ever been a situation where another coach has taken over a championship team (in the NBA) and won with the same guys the next season?

    I guess thats a hard question to ask since more often than not the coach stays until it is thought that he can't win anymore. (unless of course you are Larry Brown)

    I think a good coach does make the difference. (Shaq, Kobe, Phil)

    That Lakers team didnt start winning the big ones until Phil Jackson entered the fold.

    I think it is natural to feel uneasy when the heralded best coach in the league leaves your team, because you know that coaching can be considered a liability...whereas with LB you knew you had the best available.
     
  6. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    The Lakers , or the Bulls never had the same situation as us. The Lakers didn't only lose Phil Jackson they lost Shaq, and the Bulls started winning after Phil AND Scottie pippen came. You can't compare oranges with apples.
     
  7. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Just an opinion but...

    The way I remember it is the Pistons did well with LB at the helm. It was only after they acquired Sheed that they became a "great" team.

    The difference between the NBA championship year and last year was the bench, IMO. That's what changed. I think that mattered more than other factors including strength of opponents and LB flirting.

    So I'm not too worried about LB's departure. We still have Sheed and the core players from last season. Flip should be fine. I'd worry a lot more if an important player left.

    Without Sheed, I believe LB is not any more sucessful than Carlisle.
     
  8. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    It's not "so much worse" as you put it. I don't think going from the NBA finals to possibly getting into the Conference Finals is that far of a step back, but it IS a step back.
     
  9. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    The answer is: YES. When we got Sheed with LB, I felt there was nothing standing in our way unless the Spurs made it to the finals. I felt the same way this year and I was right (less 7 points).

    I think Sheed w/ Flip will make us better than no Sheed w/ The Cola, but it doesn't make us as good as Sheed w/ LB. Which says even with a revisit to the 50 win season, I expect we should perform better in the playoffs than we did with Cola, yet not make it to the finals.

    It's not that I'm being pessimistic (although many would disagree). It's just my honest opinion about how this team will perform minus LB.
     
  10. Abe Froemen

    Abe Froemen First Round Draft Pick

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    micro

    the 2002 wolves were the second leading scoring team in 2002 But dallas the team that knocked them out was the leading scoreing team so it isnt like they rolled over to the clippers or warriors they lost to a very good team. my point about was and still is that the wolves didnt have the talent that team had billups who i love (as a pg) but was he at the level he is now no way that team had some ok talent but nobody who could seriosly help kg . Your point was they had 5 players in double figure scoring big deal. were the players playoff tested like ours no. did they have a talented bench NO had they won it all and know what it takes to get back there NO. did they ever stand a snowballs chance of winning lol
     
  11. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Exactly Abe Froemen, and Darthtater are right. It was Sheed' that got us to champinship level, and without him we probably would fall in the East Finals to the Pacers. This is the same place Carlisle fell the East Finals so it's not all about lb, and the wolves were never as good as us. I've said this in 1 of my other posts that maybe it wasn't that Flip wasn't a winner it may be that the TWolves players were not winners.
     
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Abe, I'm not talking about winning the championship with those Wolves teams. I am talking about getting out of the first round.

    Great coaches get the most out of their players. Disregarding last year's bench, LB was known for this. He was Mr. Quick Fix who could step into an organization and get a lottery team to turn around and make the playoffs.

    Flip had 1 good playoff season in Minny. Now he gets a promotion to the head of the class, keys to Daddy Davidson's cadillac. We all think the world of these players and love them dearly. If they underachieve, if the trademark tenacity and defense is absent, you tell me where the sideways glances should be cast...

    That is my point. Coaches are much more than guys who manage PT and call timeouts. The quality of your coach will impact your record and success through teaching, discipline, X's and O's, and respect from the referees. That one foul call for a team, or the ability to reverse an onslaught of bogus calls on the road are the difference deep in the playoffs.

    We'll have to agree to disagree. I think another coach could have done a much better job in Minny. Flip has to have a personal career year as a coach if we want to contend. He can't ride the quality of this roster. He has to make them better, keep them sharp (not just rested) and manage personalities. And this Piston team, while full of great guys has a wide array of personalities.
     
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Maybe, but 10 years with one franchise saw a lot of player turnover.
     
  14. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Gosh, this is why I can't wait for the season to start all of our disagreements will be answered.
     
  15. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    himat

    Nope. We will have new disagreements and rehash/put new spins on old ones. That's what makes the forum fun and enlightening. :)
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Yeah, persistent threads and a search function will make it hard to hide who said what. LOL. Accountability!!
     
  17. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    not so fast........lol!

    you misinterpreted me. I was referring to Shaq and Kobe PRIOR to Phil Jackson's arrival. They were unable to get past Utah back then. (couldn't stop the pick & roll). Phil Jackson was the difference for that team. So my point is...superior talent, superior team does not necessarily equate to a championship if you don't have the right coach.
     
  18. Jackattaq

    Jackattaq First Round Draft Pick

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    LB and Fouls

    Oh really, Is that why Sheed got so many Techs in the playoffs? Or why Billups and Rip had some mental meltdowns when they were getting screwed by some pretty shady officiating? The Pistons were the least penalized team in the regular season (as far as committing personal fouls). But in the playoffs they were getting called for TONS OF FOULS.

    Did having LB over on the bench help us then? Did his presence stop the refs from calling alot of bogus ticky-tack fouls when guarding WADE or MANU ? Did having LB on the bench keep SHEED out of foul trouble? How about BEN, SHEED or DICE in game 7 ? LB did NOT get the Pistons more respect in the playoffs from the officials. Their level of fouls committed rose significantly in the playoffs. LB wasn't a huge difference in terms of respect from the officials.

    No offense to you, but that part of your argument stinks.
     
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Perception and reality are frequently two different things. We had the second lowest fouls per game in the playoffs. That's a FACT Jack(attaq).

    Techs were an attitude problem all year. When Rip bats the ball away from Danny Crawford on national TV, it's going to get a tech. Ain't no coach stopping that. When Sheed shoots off his mouth on the way to the bench, no coach can stop that tech.

    Again, 2nd lowest fouls per game in the playoffs (21.04). 2nd lowest during the season (19.98). That's the stats. Ball don't lie.

    That part of my argument is :thumb:.
     
  20. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Larry the loud mouth.

    Yeah Micro, honestly what were you thinking? chuckle..chuckle..:laugh:

    Honestly, I think Larry hollers and screams so much he pretty much kills any leverage he may hold based on tenure by the 2nd quarter. :)
     
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