Let's talk about Stuckey for a second

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Kidstealth, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. Kidstealth

    Kidstealth First Round Draft Pick

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    Okay, we all know he struggled last season, yet at the same time he did improve his game. His first year as a starter wasn't horrid, and some people are talking like the guy can't play point. We have a 3rd year player going into his second year starting.

    He struggled with consistency. November and February were bad MONTHS, which isn't really acceptable. He'll need to get out of his funk over a couple games, not weeks.

    The only numbers that were worse than his previous year were turnovers, fouls, and FT percentage. Two of those are to be expected, more playing time equals more fouls and turnovers. The free throw percentage went down a smidge.

    If we also take into account the coaching craziness, who knows what was going on with the vets vs younger players, the way the offense was run, and the general chaos, one would think he would improve this year.

    So why all the hate? Give the guy a chance. It isn't like he is Sabastian Telfair. All I hear is that he is a combo guard who can't play point, ad nauseam, and some absurd crap about him playing the 2 instead. Give me a break.

    The guy is young, it has only been a year, give him a shot. People are saying they would trade sessions for him straight up! Why? Oh because he is pass first? Sorry I don't see that big of a difference. Was it that people think players can't develop?

    Stuckey

    Okay, we all know he struggled last season, yet at the same time he did improve his game. His first year as a starter wasn't horrid, and some people are talking like the guy can't play point. We have a 3rd year player going into his second year starting.

    He struggled with consistency. November and February were bad MONTHS, which isn't really acceptable. He'll need to get out of his funk over a couple games, not weeks.

    The only numbers that were worse than his previous year were turnovers, fouls, and FT percentage. Two of those are to be expected, more playing time equals more fouls and turnovers. The free throw percentage went down a smidge.

    If we also take into account the coaching craziness, who knows what was going on with the vets vs younger players, the way the offense was run, and the general chaos, one would think he would improve this year.

    So why all the hate? Give the guy a chance. It isn't like he is Sabastian Telfair. All I hear is that he is a combo guard who can't play point, ad nauseam, and some absurd crap about him playing the 2 instead. Give me a break.

    The guy is young, it has only been a year, give him a shot. People are saying they would trade sessions for him straight up! Why? Oh because he is pass first? Sorry I don't see that big of a difference. Was it that people think players can't develop?

    Stuckey

    Rodney Stuckey Career Statistics - Detroit Pistons - ESPN

    Sessions

    Ramon Sessions Career Statistics - Milwaukee Bucks - ESPN

    I don't see that big of a difference.


    Who is this player? Drafted in the top 10. Point guard, I didn't average over 5 assist a game in my first 4 seasons. I didn't shoot over 40% from the field, or the arc in my first three seasons. In fact I never averaged more than 6 APG until my 9th year in the league, and since then have averaged above 6.

    Chauncey Billups Career Statistics - Denver Nuggets - ESPN


    edit let me try and fix the stats...grrr. I had a little mock up where I subbed in the different teams to make you guess a bit on what player it was.
     
  2. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I agree. We can be pretty quick to turn on a player.

    He might follow a similar career arc as Chauncey did.
     
  3. Kidstealth

    Kidstealth First Round Draft Pick

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    I guess that is what surprises me, that we brought in castoffs like Ben and Chauncey, and yet people aren't willing to give our guys a couple years to develop.
     
  4. Oda

    Oda Second Round Draft Pick

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    that's because we've been spoiled the past 6 years
     
  5. HelloIDistance

    HelloIDistance First Round Draft Pick

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    Well said. I'm a known Stuckey supporter and I do think he will become a good PG in the league. It's funny because people get upset over scrubs like Amir Johnson, yet we have a player in Stuckey who is young and actually producing results. We don't need to spend hours coming up with miniscule stats to show what Stuckey is doing, like Amir or other bench scrubs that are/have been loved over the years. With that said though, this will be Stuckey's make it or break it year for the PG position. He needs to at least show progress and leadership abilites on the floor. I hope he's been working on his game this summer.

    But yes I find it ridiculous that some people want to trade Stuckey for Ramon Sessions.
     
  6. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Isn't the 3rd year an indicator of the young players? Usually this is when it all begins to "click" and they start producing. Lets see what Rodney does this year, and then we'll talk about it.
     
  7. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Yeah, it's not like coaches where we know they stink half way through the first season.
     
  8. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    CB didn't just become an elite PG because he came to Detroit and became a starter. He had Larry Brown teaching him for 2 years which makes his situation unique to Stuckey's.

    Rodney won't get that same development and coaching which I don't think should be underestimated and why we shouldn't expect his career arc to mirror Chauncey's, or that his game should all of a sudden explode because it's his 3rd year.

    PG is one of those positions that needs teaching - raw skills aren't good enough for you to just wing it. That's my concern. Is Stuckey getting the coaching he needs to play PG?

    I do however think the kid is good enough to be the starter on our team. He should at least be as good as someone like Jameer Nelson. As long as we don't rely on him being 'the guy' he should be good enough to be a major part of our future.
     
  9. MJO77

    MJO77 First Round Draft Pick

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    Stuckey impressed me the most in those 4 games against Cleveland in the 1st round. He played like he cared, and he at least tried to carry the team on his back. I guess the ego's of Sheed+AI(or AI's ghost, since he didn't even show up)+Rip just weighed too much.
    But that's something I wish we had seen all season long. He has so much potential, and it really showed in the first round.
    15pts and just over 5 dimes a game in that short 1st round. I'm not saying his play was absolutely spot on, but I had never seen him show so much leadership from him. THAT is why I'm optomistic about his future.
     
  10. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    I agree with you completely. It does annoy me, but hey we all have our own "guy" that we grow attached to, I suppose
     
  11. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Anyone would struggle with Iverson and Hamilton clashing. Now it could be Gordon and hamilton clashing.
     
  12. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Is there an echo in here?


    This summer is very important for Stuckey. He better be taking a thousand jumpers a day every day. I see this as kind of a make or break year. Either the jump shot comes along and defenses have to play him again or it doesn't and he starts to fade into obscurity.

    Right now he's been once around the league and everyone has figured out that he is all drive all the time, so all the big guys have to do is rotate and meet him at the rim. Not that he's not a reasonably effective driver, just that without strong passing ability (and be honest, he makes the simple passes, not those that set up the set up or those that require more skill) and without a threatening jump shot, he's just making the game a lot harder than it needs to be. And harder than his current skillset can support.

    If Stuckey comes back talking about the wonderful around the world cruise he has been on for the past few months, then all bets are off as to whether he can hang around.
     
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I saw this interview piece with Mike Bibby a few years ago, and I think he shoots a thousands shots a day, or perhaps sets of thousands of shots in order to build and maintain endurance.

    Needless to say, I doubt he often takes more than 20 shots a game, but the guys who treat this like a career, never stop working on their game. Jordan did it. Zeke had a gym in his house and would practice the night before games. I'm sure Magic and Bird put in the extra work as well.

    Talent is not enough. I think that is the problem with all of our young guys year over year. We see talent or hard work, but we rarely see the full package, and we equate parts to the potential for the whole, when it just ain't there...
     
  14. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    On the other hand Roscoe, Bill Laimbeer wouldn't touch a basketball during the offseason.

    In general though, you need the muscle memory of taking all those shots to make it a reflex during game time.

    There are some guys that would not benefit from the countless repititions though.

    You see this in golf where guys like Vijay Singh need to pound balls for hours to stay on top of their game, while others benefit from shorter intense practice.
     
  15. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    agreed, and to a point that can explain alot of the reason why our young talent never gets any better, they are hard workers but they have maxed out by the time they get to us and no matter how hard they work on there game there already at there peak.

    Also it explains why some of our pick ups over the years have done well and some havn't... look at the there spot they were drafted, how many top 10 picks did Joe pick up over the years, its not a for sure type thing.. but more times then not top 10 picks talent levels is just going to be better then 2nd round talent. After they fail badly trying to get by on there talent alone, they are given a 2nd chance with Joe and now they work and with both phases working for them the blossom and we win the 04 title.

    Problem is that a few of those talented guys went back to the work effort that they had early on in there careers and we saw the results...

    NOBODY ever had to light a fire under Jordon, Birds, Magic, or Zeke's butt.
     
  16. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Give us some credit. We usually know they stink weeks before they get hired.

    According to ESPN's "The Disposable Superstar", Chauncey learned the most from smart veteran teammates while he was in Minnesota. Larry Brown gave him the playing time and steady hand to show what he had learned and help round him out.
     
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    If one watched Chauncey in 2003 and Chauncey in 2004, it is night and day the difference that LB had. Fast forward to 2006, and Chauncey is an MVP type PG under the same coach he had in Minny, running a similar system, but playing a completely different way.

    I've never known Billups to be a guy you could rely on for penetrating self-assessment.
     
  18. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I agree with this. The Hamilton/Gordon 3 guard line-up will pose problems for Rodney.

    He could flourish under the old guard when things were a little more regimented and he didn't have to make as many decisions.
     
  19. Kidstealth

    Kidstealth First Round Draft Pick

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    ESPN - OTL: The Disposable Superstar - E-ticket

    After reading that article, it basically reinforces what I've always thought.

    The fact that they always did flip a switch, for better or worse. That even Chauncey was intimidated to tell the veterans what to do. Could you imagine being Stuckey, after Billups gets traded, and trying to tell Hamilton or Wallace what to do on a play? I can only imagine the eye rolls or curses, or even, you ain't Chauncey replies, merely trying to emulate what he might have learned from Billups, and getting shot down easily.

    Plus bits and pieces from the article I find eerily similar.


    Also I don't like the fact Dumars didn't talk to him about the trade. I also find it absurd to think having Chauncey would have changed anything in the playoffs. When your bench has more life starters, and Rasheed is getting outscored and out rebounded by Ilgauskas, there is a problem.
     
  20. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    After reading the first 10 posts of this thread, I thought that this was Stuckey appreciation thread and he had been traded...:sssh:

    Stuckey had issues last season and everyone knows it. Like dba said we have to hope that he didn't take the summer off traveling and relaxing....there is no rule stating that a third year player can't play the summer league and maybe he should have been there honing those pg skills.....however with that being said I could see him taking ALL of the shots and poor Daye, Summers etc would have got no time to practice theirs... :)
     

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