Let's talk about Stuckey for a second

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Kidstealth, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    We went from 7 straight years with at least 10 playoff wins per post season to 0 wins. Denver had their best postseason since they were in the ABA.

    Iverson couldn't have been the negative force that caused these 2 events, because he didn't even suit up for our playoff games.
  2. DaviaG-Rap

    DaviaG-Rap First Round Draft Pick

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    Your right his name is Lebron James.
  3. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Billups requested Denver if traded...Joe obliged..

    "Also I don't like the fact Dumars didn't talk to him about the trade. I also find it absurd to think having Chauncey would have changed anything in the playoffs. When your bench has more life starters, and Rasheed is getting outscored and out rebounded by Ilgauskas, there is a problem." Kidstealth

    Actually;

    "December 5, Rocky Mountain News: The Nuggets coach said Wednesday on ESPN's "Pardon the Interruption'' he believes Detroit executive Joe Dumars had an agreement with Billups that, if he were to be traded, he would be sent to his hometown of Denver. The Pistons sent Billups to the Nuggets on Nov. 3 while acquiring Allen Iverson.

    "I don't know this for a fact, but I have a feeling that Joe Dumars and Chauncey had a kind of an agreement that, if they were going to trade him, he wanted to be traded to Denver,'' Karl said on the show. "And Dumars respected Chauncey so much he got that done. And I think the pieces also helped A.I., and the pieces fitted, and everything could be done.

    "I don't know that for a fact, but I really believed that the Detroit Pistons loved Chauncey so much that they subtly gave him his request. He's back in his hometown. I've never seen kind of a spirit of a town rally around a player.''

    Since Billups first suited up for the Nuggets, they are 12-3. When asked on the show if the Nuggets can challenge West heavyweights Los Angeles Lakers and New Orleans this season, Karl said, "Yes. I think that's the subtle comment that we're making in the locker room to one another.''



    And this from PistonPowered's Dan Feldman;​

    Mark Kiszla of The Denver Post wrote a very interesting article detailing how the Billups-Iverson trade developed.
    "And when Detroit asked if Melo was on the trading block, the Pistons were firmly told: no way.
    “When I heard there was some talk about a trade involving Melo for me, I sat down during the summer and talked with (Pistons president) Joe Dumars,” said Billups, who loved his boss like a brother. “We talked about the whole trade situation. I told him: ‘Look, I don’t want to go anywhere. But if I’ve got to go, there’s only one place I want to be: Home. In Denver.’ And I’m sure he took that into consideration.”


  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    If Billups had an agreement with Joe and Joe honored it, then why would CB go out of his way in an interview to describe how he felt insulted by the silent treatment and the late notice?

    Since he has no incentive to lie about that, it is more credible than what a journalist surmises.
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    You're talking about the crybaby that gets posterized by college players?
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Le Pregnant Dog
  7. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    This is a first person account, Billups is speaking;
    “When I heard there was some talk about a trade involving Melo for me, I sat down during the summer and talked with (Pistons president) Joe Dumars,” said Billups, who loved his boss like a brother. “We talked about the whole trade situation. I told him: ‘Look, I don’t want to go anywhere. But if I’ve got to go, there’s only one place I want to be: Home. In Denver.’ And I’m sure he took that into consideration.”
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    That does paint a pretty different picture.
  9. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Yeh, I hate it when facts get in the way of a good story....
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    This is obviously Billups talking about a potential trade before the actual trade occured. The impetus for the conversation was the potential Melo trade. And notice that in this prior scenario, it was Billups who heard the rumors and approached Joe to discuss it.

    I have no doubt that Billups was glad that he was traded to his home town vs. other destinations and I have no doubt that he made his wishes known to Joe.


    But this in no way refutes Billups' later account that no mention of the AI trade was made to him and that he sensed that he was gone by the silent treatment that he was getting from Pistons management/ coaching staffs.

    I don't see any contradictions here.
  11. max

    max All-Star

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    In other words Billups did not want to be traded and probably thought he was safe once the season began. Hence the surprise.
  12. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Chauncey is not a good person.
  13. max

    max All-Star

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    The only thing I recall him complaining about was how they gave his number away to his replacement. He said something about turning on ESPN and there was AI wearing his #1.
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think he expected Joe to give him a heads up on things like trading him and giving his number away. The surprise was when it was so cold and business-like, and not a frank discussion between two mature men.

    CB looked up to Joe.
  15. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    This is a first person account, Billups is speaking;
    “When I heard there was some talk about a trade involving Melo for me, I sat down during the summer and talked with (Pistons president) Joe Dumars,” said Billups, who loved his boss like a brother. “We talked about the whole trade situation. I told him: ‘Look, I don’t want to go anywhere. But if I’ve got to go, there’s only one place I want to be: Home. In Denver.’ And I’m sure he took that into consideration.”


    Clearly, Dumars told Billups he was shopping him. Clearly he told him he was shopping him to Denver, talked with him about the potential Melo swap, talked to him about "the whole trade" situation as indicated by Billups own words. How much more should Dumars have done? He shipped Billups to his own home town where Billups indicated was the only place he'd want to be traded.

    Ya'll take one line "look, I don't want to go anywhere" and the fact the Iverson was then wearing the #1, and Billups response, and somehow come away feeling Billups was hoodwinked or treated unfairly by Dumars. I just don't see it.

    They seemed to have openly discussed everything except the date and the players involved.

    Iverson - wearing the #1 wasn't exactly a scrub and wasn't an insult, give the little man his due.

    Hopefully, the jersey will one day be retired in the rafters. But until that happens, it isn't retired, it's used. Understandably - the shock of suddenly seeing Iverson on the floor wearing the #1 may have offended the senses of many Piston fans.

    • One because it really meant C-note was history.
    • Two because it really meant Iverson was a Piston.
    • Three because the reality of an era gone was suddenly front and center in a very vivid way.
    • Four because it meant fans would have re-appraise their opinion of the man that brought, used then sent Billups out of town. A persons natural tendency is to think they have to take a side, they have to form an opinion then stake their ground around it.
    Dumars role is to create change, to force progression, to maintain momentum. That can't be done in a black hole, it's done by changing gears and replacing parts. Whether we like or don't like his swaps on an individual player basis is our perogative. But he's swapping parts of a larger whole, one that he and he alone is charged with creating. I can only imagine it's a tough job.
    I'm not sure where the appearance of creating transparency or "fairness to fans" on individual trades ranks, but I'm guessing it's pretty low on the totem pole.
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    So...
    Antonio McDyess was the one who told Chauncey that he was being traded. Is that really the way that it should work? A co-worker says "he TaS, why you still here, they fired you yesterday."
  17. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    On Billups..

    As an aside;

    Most humans are empathetic beings by their nature. We often project our own emotions over events that happen to others. We "feel their pain". We have a tendency to flavor our opinions on our gut emotions.

    In times past, that surely helped in our not getting eaten by sabertooth lions.

    But in the Billups scenario, we can certainly agree that Billups knew far more about the likelyhood or reality of his being traded to Denver than his fan base.

    Besides having a specific conversation, he'd already been traded five times. In his tenure in Detroit he probaly saw another 35+ players arrive on the roster, change in the locker room, get on Roundball One and then vanish in trades or releases.

    I don't think, given the fluid dynamics of the sports rosters, that any player is ever really surprised unless they're really young guys.

    But it's pretty clear some of ya'll can look logic and the spoken record clear in the face and still say, "Naw, that ain't the way it happened". I think that's you not wanting it to have happened that way cause of the ground you've already staked.

    It's a "territorial" not a "tutorial" postion.......But I'm cool with serious commitment, power to you - Go Pistons
  18. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm just saying... that for all Joe's worries about treating guys right and creating an atmosphere that attracts FA's and other players who wouldn't normally want to come to Detroit, I think he is handling the touchy feely stuff poorly lately. Why should Ben Wallace be disgruntled when he leaves the organization that gave him everything and that he helped reach the top? He should have been celebrated by the organization. Instead, he is told that he's an offensive liability and as soon as he leaves, Stuckey is wearing #3. Billups is part of a cap space clearing transaction and he's last to know about it. His mentor gives him the silent treatment, then hands his #1 over to the new guy... who's only a salary cap pawn (the way that history is re-written... when actually, I think he was that piece that Joe thought we needed, which is why he told AI that). Rip, another piece of our beloved core gets benched for the salary cap pawn by a coach who shares Joe's bball philosophy. Lineups are shuffled like a Euchre deck. The young guys don't know where they fit in. The veterans consider mutiny.

    I'm arguing that Joe could have accomplished all of these same things in a much smoother way. He wasn't a vocal leader as a player and I think that some of his natural personality traits are hurting him now. He's behind on the communication front. He's making decisions in his office and he thinks that is the end of it. These players aren't chess pieces. They have emotions, egos, and they talk to eachother.
  19. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    TaS, I love you man, but do you personally know Dumars? This is what G-man was talking about. You are arguing about how Joe's failing due to the deficiencies of what you think Joe's peronality is.
    But, that's just it. This isn't a democracy. Every NBA franchise is run as a dictatorship. Joe's the dictator here. He was kind enough to trade Billups to Denver. He could've sent him to Memphis Grizzlies or Sacramento Kings.
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    ........

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