Lions reportedly set to fire Mike Martz

Discussion in 'Football, Baseball, and Hockey' started by jammertime, Dec 29, 2007.

  1. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    ESPN - Detroit set to oust Martz, name Brown O-coordinator - NFL

    When they first hired him I thought that he'd stick around for 2 years, but I thought that he'd be the one to walk away, not that he'd be fired. This surprises me.
  2. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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  3. Ozarkruffrider

    Ozarkruffrider First Round Draft Pick

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    Guys, this had been brewing most of the season. Martz was more lame duck as it turns out from what was a rumor that I heard.
  4. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If it is Millen doing the firing, he should be leaving with him. Any self-respecting man would have step down by now...Nixon did it...

    Foolish Ford for feeding the Lions fans with the inept M's of Millen, Morhinweg, Marriucci, Marinelli and Martz. All were winners before they arrived in Detroit ...what happen??

    [​IMG]
  5. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Millen needs to go. Bottom line. It is not Martz. Martz had no line to work with.
  6. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I agree with you that Millen needs to go. He should be the first person to go. But he won't go and Ford won't fire him.

    I disagree with you that Martz isn't partially to blame. Martz cares more about himself and "looking good" than he does about winning. His claim to fame is his "genius" play calling, yet we were horrible in the red zone and on 3rd down mostly because of poor play calling and terrible predictability. The guy refused to run the ball.

    True, our line sucks, but part of the problem is that Martz is so "fun and gun" happy that teams don't have to worry about the run, they can just attack the QB all day long. He doesn't leave backs or TEs in to block, he sends every last one of them out into routes. He rarely uses the shotgun to counteract blitzs and heavy pressure.

    Part of the problem was Kitna's lack of escape ability and panache for hanging onto the ball far too long, but Martz has a lot to do with the offense's underperformance.
  7. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    But Lions couldn't run the ball most of the games. The offensive line can't block consistently and effective. And they couldn't protect consistently and effective, thus forcing hurried throws and interceptions. Kitna is not that mobile and he needs time to get the ball out. Martz is not perfect, but you have to believe that given a better offensive line he'd run more and with better protection Kitna would've been that much more effective in the red zone and in other situations.
  8. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Millen, Morhinweg, Marriucci, Marinelli and Martz.

    Things they have in common:
    Their names all start with the letter M.
    They were all fired when they failed to polish a turd.

    Tough job.
  9. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Martz, Marinelli, Millen...fire em all!

    But nothing will change until the Fords are gone.
  10. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I think it would be a grave mistake to fire Martz. We actually have an Offense now.
    Marinelli wants to to be tougher and run the ball more. But that will just beat up your O-line more.
    We could run the ball. We just didn't. But when we did good things happened for Kitna.
    This offense was good enough to win 10 games. It was the D that faded. And special Teams...and the "O"...
  11. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I disagree. Most O-lines prefer to run block than pass block. When they pass block they're moving backwards, are on their heels and are on the defensive. When they run block they're moving forward, driving the other team backwards and are on the offensive. Running blocking is harder on the defense and pass blocking is harder on the offense - especially when they don't get any help (shotgun formations, backs and TEs that occasionally stay in to chip or block, a running play called more than just once per quarter, etc.)

    IMO, the offense is as much to blame as the D or special teams. Their inability to convert on 3rd downs, run the ball or score TDs in the red zone put more pressure on, and wore out, the already undermanned and undertalented D.

    The offensive "skill" positions is where the Lions spend the majority of their high draft picks, while the D gets filled with late rounders and castoff free agents. I thought that the D held up fairly well this season, all things considered. Sure they sucked, but I expected them to suck even more. The problem with the 2nd half of the season was that they just weren't forcing the turnovers that they were in the 1st half. Combined that with the huge discrepancy in time of possession and they just wore down and their lack of talent was exposed.
  12. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    You're right Jamm but most O-linemen will tell you they get more beat-up playing the run. Guys fall on the back of your leg passblocking.
  13. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    How quickly people forget. Just 3 years ago this Lions team couldn't run or pass the ball to save its life. We couldn't even put up points on the board until Martz came aboard. Jason Hanson was our leading scorer 3 seasons ago and and Kevin Jones had more catches out of the back field than our WR's. Martz is nothing more than a scape goat.

    So for all of you people cheering for Martz to be ran out of town I hope you will be happy next season we go back to 169 yards passing and averaging 12 points a game on 4 field goals.

    This team will not win consistently and go to the playoffs until they stop focusing on flashy offensive players to sell tickets with. They need to focus on major upgrades on the offensive and defensive lines along with adding 2 linebackers to help Erine Sims.
  14. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    That's right.
  15. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    You are right there WW...still need that offensive power. Keep Martz and fire the defensive coordinator, Marinelli and Millen...and then make Lloyd Carr the GM:pound:
  16. Ozarkruffrider

    Ozarkruffrider First Round Draft Pick

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    Here's Hondo's assessment:

    Lions now Turn Their Attention to Next Season…Some Thoughts:

    By Hondo S. Carpenter Sr.
    December 30, 2007
    Green Bay, Wisconsin
    Lambeau Field
    O.K. I admit I am a little cranky. The Spartans lost the Champs Bowl, and after a marathon driving session that took me from Florida (right after the game) to Michigan, and over to Green Bay for today’s game (and don’t forget a blown out tire on the way here) this has not been my most restful weekend. That’s O.K. however because watching a football game here in Green Bay, in December is an incredible gift and pleasure.
    The Lions came into this game with a lot on their plate. As many of you know, I broke the story that Mike Martz would not be back with the Lions several weeks ago (on the TV show) and finally the national media is reporting it. Truly it’s a good thing that he is leaving. He simply didn’t fit here in Detroit and you can go back to my pre-season and early season reports to confirm that I have felt this for over a year. Make no mistake however that Martz is far from the only person that will be gone.
    Kalimba Edwards was a free agent that the Lions stood to lose to the Browns and I said at the time and ever since their matching the offer was absurd. He will be gone. Nice guy that looked the part physically, but couldn’t produce where it mattered. Marinelli didn’t even let him come to Green Bay. Can anyone say: SEE-YA?
    Although it is not 100%, the odds weigh that Shaun Cody will be gone. I think he will. He has not panned out in Detroit and Joe Barry wants to overhaul the position and Marinelli does also. Boss Bailey is on his way out. He just never materialized into a great option for the Lions and they certainly gave him more than his share of opportunity. All three of those players are good men, and their leaving is best for the Lions, but certainly is in no way a slam on their character.
    Shaun Rogers is most surely gone. Although none of my sources will confirm it as a done deal, they all agree that they don’t see how he comes back and I don’t know one player that has supported him privately to me. In fact if there has been any complaints about Marinelli from players about his handling of other players, it is only with how they perceive him getting a free ride. Those days are over. Marinelli went out on a limb for him and he didn’t do anything to honor that. In fact, one NFL executive (not with the Lions) summed it up best, “Marinelli went out on a limb for the guy and he sawed it off.”
    Of course Tatum Bell (he also didn’t make the trip) and George Foster are done. They are free agents and the Lions want nothing more to do with them. Neither of them showed what the Lions are looking for.
    I would be surprised, but next season is a long way away that Lehman and Lenon both return. Of course there is a chance they could, but I put it very low that they both are back. The Lions Tampa Two defense is predicated on LB play and neither one showed it. Part of that is due to the poor play of the DT position that is supposed to fill gaps in the this D, but the Lions have to address it. I was a huge advocate of Patrick Willis last season, (I will address the draft later) but getting a quality MLB is very difficult in the draft that can play immediately. I think they will address it, but next years starter may be a free agent.
    The Lions want to resign T.J. Duckett. If they can get a deal done I would look for it to be a two-year deal. Marinelli loves him, and the Lions head coach and management team have been upset with how Martz used him the entire season. I know that some people (who are just ignorant) accuse me of supporting Duckett because he is a Spartan, but the facts are the facts. He was the best back in training camp according to players and Lions staff, and Martz didn’t want to use him like the rest did. Martz won the short-term battle of wills, but lost the war by being shown the door. There was disappointment that the deal didn’t get done before today, but many connected to the organization are used to being disappointed by how fast the Lions sign their own guys. Just look at Redding and Furrey last year. I asked Marinelli if he would expect deals with his free agents done sooner this year and he was emphatic that he wanted and expected it. I know for a FACT that Seattle, Chicago and the Jets all would love to talk to T.J. about playing for them next season. I know that he would like to stay with the Lions and they want him, so let’s hope the deal gets done.
    Roy Williams is someone you need to keep and eye on. I said before the season that the Lions needed to try to resign him before the conclusion of the season. They didn’t and with one year left this could get messy. There is strong sentiment that if the Lions can’t work out a new deal before the draft that they may move him. Again, that is sentiment only and I am in no way saying that is the decision. I just know that you don’t want to franchise tag a guy who doesn’t want you and even though that choice would he a year away, a trade with Dallas for a defensive player could potentially be worked out. They would love to add him to their weapons, and he would love to be home. I am not reporting that he is gone at all. I am saying that it is a situation to keep your eye on.
    With 15 minutes to go today and the Lions clearly out of the game, it sure was a shame to see Kitna still playing and not Drew Stanton getting reps. For all of you morons that think it is only because he is a Spartan (get a life) you’re simply wrong. He missed an entire season of practicing with his teammates and reps in games when they were essentially over because Martz wanted a journeyman in J.T. O’Harrington in case Kitna went down. His “me first and my career first” mentality is why he won’t be in Detroit next season and Drew Stanton essentially lost a year. Lions lost…again.
    Today’s game told us a lot. Marinelli wasn’t willing to tell us what, but he agreed with my question. I know that sounds silly, but listen. Last year Marinelli made it clear that some of the players he decided to get rid of or keep, played their way on and off the roster by how they played in that last meaningless game. I asked him if today was that kind of game and he assured me that it was, but that he couldn’t say how individuals did until he can watch tape.
    Marinelli will be meeting with ALL of the staff this week and he will begin to give his list of guys he wants resigns and targeting folks for free agency. If you are a football fanatic as I am, I am sure you love all the off-season maneuvering. Once a season is over, I start immediately looking to next. There will be a lot of changes, and a lot of building on what this season did right, and tearing down what didn’t work.


    Lions Lose…Again. Time to Look ahead…Again.

    By Hondo S. Carpenter Sr.
    December 30, 2007
    Green Bay, Wisconsin
    Lambeau Field
    The Lions lost…again. O.K. that wasn’t a big surprise, but it’s what I’ve got to report. Kitna didn’t get his 10 wins, Mike Martz is gone (along with a group of players) and the Lions are left asking themselves what happened?
    I predicted 9 wins to start the season, and at the time I didn’t think that Mike Martz passion to get back to being a head coach would cause him to have such a terrible year as an offensive coordinator. He spent too much time looking ahead. Many of his terrible decisions cost the Lions a large part of their success. Now you can’t blame him for all the Lions woes, but he sure caused a lot of them.
    Here is the biggest item to be encouraged about. The Lions more than doubled last years win total of 3. They got 7. In the NFL that is a huge number of improvement and as frustrating as the seasons ending was after a 6-2 start, that is tangible progress and it can’t be ignored. The critics have a lot of legit complaints, including whom they beat, but this is a positive that can’t be turned negative. I simply say that 7 wins in the NFL after a 3-win season is a major upgrade.
    There are to many issues that require an honest negative critique and I will do that over the course of the next couple of weeks with several different articles. The Martz system was not the issue. It was an issue because of who ran it. Just like Donnie Henderson was the issue and not the D last year. Essentially the “Martz system” is an NFL spread, but Marinelli wants to see more balance and more running then he was getting.
    The Lions ran today only 35% of the time (they came at 34% for the season) and that is not a stat you will see next year. Teams that win can run the ball. The Lions can’t because they aren’t committed to it. That too will change.
    The Lions will address many issues and again I will address them in detail later, but I can say this: I am not an apologist and I certainly am not afraid to call things as I see them. I will do that this season also. I just think that all of us are frustrated at starting 6-2 and finishing 7-9. There is no excuse about it. The good thing is that it won’t be tolerated and Marinelli as I write this is probably already on the plane, and working on next season.
    One thing that is so encouraging is that unlike past years, this team has not given up on Marinelli. They may not like his handling of Shaun Rogers, but they trust in him. This is still his team. That is a good thing since he is a capable man. Remember Lions nation that this organization has had 50-years to screw this up and Marinelli isn’t going to fix it in two.
    For whatever it is worth, I think he will. There sure is a lot of frustration, but there are also reasons to be hopeful. I can say this. Next year there will be no reason for hope outside of the playoffs. No moral victories and nothing to be encouraged about. That is a bold statement, but one that is the truth. Playoffs or bust next season. The fans don’t deserve to wait any longer.
    This draft cannot be a bust as so many have been in the past. The entire organization (including ownership…I can hope can’t I?) is on observation starting tonight. They have to do better with free agents and they have to draft guys that not only make it, but also contribute immediately.
    If you asked Marinelli he would agree. No one is angrier than he is.
    Is it to early to predict that the Lions will look long and hard at J Lehman, the LB out of ILL? It is way to early to predict that they will take him, but I know they like him. He certainly would be a great fit.
  17. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    I've read the report by Hondo Carpenter and I must disagree. Seven victories is not measurable progress. These Lions are the same bunch as we saw during the 2006 season. Too many games this season the team simply quit playing. The Defense finished behind Miami in both points allowed and yards allowed. We were the worst in the NFL in both of these categories. The statistical numbers on defense are much worse than last season. However, the coordinator will remain because he is the brother-in-law of the head coach. Once the team was 6-2, it was up to the head coach to make game to game adjustments to put this bunch into the playoffs. He needed to be tuned into his team to be able to make the right decisions. His players didn't follow him. Instead, they quit on him. The team started 6-2 simply because they took advantage of turnover opportunities. We were #1 in the NFL after starting 6-2 with our turnover plus or minus, and points off of turnovers. Our statistical numbers after those first 8 games told the story of a team just waiting to collapse. Our Head coach instead, declared us an "ELITE" team. I admired the play of both Drew Stanton and T. J. Duckett when they played for MSU (I'm a UM fan) but they are not the answer. We will continue to suffer as a franchise until all those whose name begins with an "m" are replaced. I will boldly predict a 5-11 record for next season as the team will not have the talent to do any better. The offense will suffer from "Martz" withdrawl as they put a lot of time into learning the sets that he employed. The defense is simply not able to carry the team anywhere............
  18. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    With as many holes that the Lions roster has, a 7-win season should be considered a success (whether the wins were at the beginning or the end of the year). Even if the Lions would have managed to eek into the playoffs, they don't have the talent at this point to win a playoff game.

    I enjoy reading Hondo's reports. I don't agree with everything, but he's close to a lot of the players, coaches, scouts, etc. on a daily basis. He gives some good insights.
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I can't believe they beat the Bears twice. Without those 2 wins, this would have been another disaster season.
  20. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I hope Martz stays. We need some continuity.
    No team gave up more points than the Lions 444.~!

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