Locker Room Rumbles?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, May 20, 2006.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Eric Pate is on WDFN right now, and dropped a couple nuggets about problems in the Pistons locker room.

    Does anyone remember when that was mentioned last night? I can't remember if it was ESPN, WDFN postgame but i remember hearing it.

    Anyways (take this for what it is worth),
    • Antonio McDyess is not at all happy about how he is being used.
    • Tony Delk is also not happy.
    • Ben Wallace is really dissatisfied with the way Flip runs things.
    Pretty cool hunh? This is what happens to most great teams. The locker room doesn't always have that "family love" atmosphere.

    Now, I'm not taking any of this as gospel, but EP did call the Darko situation exactly, about 6 months before he was moved. I'd guess that he has "some" idea of what he is talking about.

    EP also mentioned that CB has lost confidence in his shot. Evidence being the last late jumper he quickly passed up to Sheed (and Sheed was subsequently fouled). He's scared to take the Big Shot.
     
  2. max

    max All-Star

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    Well, lets hope their intent is to improve the team. Delks mins have almost been cut in half. Last game ( I think in one of the articles posted here ) Dyess said to leave Sheed in instead of going in as Flip requested.

    Perhaps its just some vets trying to help the coach out.

    On Ben. He attempted 465 Field goals this season. The past 2 years his attempts were 651 and 748. So yes things have changed for him. I don't think Ben should be as large of a part of the offense as he would like but he is pretty much our post-game when Sheed is shooting 3's. Ben was a large part of our inside-out game under LB and I suppose thats what he has been trying to point out. Flip has asked Ben to roll back all the progress he has made on the offensive end the past 2 years and go back to his old role under Carlisle.

    Chuck Daley had to deal with some locker room discontent and he succeeded.

    Whatever happened to that close nit team that went out to dinner with each other and stuff? Are they still close and just unhappy with Flip? Or not always happy with their roles?

    Not the best thing to hear either way right in the middle of the playoffs.
     
  3. max

    max All-Star

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    Also want to point out that according the the FSN guys Hunter has really been stepping up as a team leader.
     
  4. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Chauncey will get his confidence back after he starts getting played by Jason Williams (if we do what we should and win Game 7). Dice needs to get more minutes and hopefully flip calls his number more often. Tony Delk I don't know. I think he could help us, but will Flip play him? As for ben Rip always seems to find him when he comes off a screen Chauncey passes him the ball. Usually the man defending Rip is a little behind and if Rip drives Ben's guy usually comes to help and Rip finds him. If we gave the ball to Ben and he converted it would help get everyone more free.
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Actually, Daddy Rich let Zeke run the locker room and Laimbeer was the enforcer.

    Daly stayed out of the way. Of course, by deferring to Zeke, he had the most important Piston on his side.
     
  6. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i believe i heard it on ESPN at halftime, and i thought it was Greg Anthony's voice say it... (i was actually in the chat, and so only listening)
     
  7. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    pleeeeeeeeez, what progress? The only progress is that Ben now thinks he has somewhat like a ,right' to be involved in the O more and forgets how terrible he plays with the ball in his hands longer than 3 seconds.
     
  8. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    The progress that got him to not let players defending him sleep on defense.
     
  9. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Under Carlisle, Ben averaged 7.6 and 6.9 points, respectively. Under Brown, his average increased to 9.5 and 9.7. I'd call that progress, wouldn't you? In fact, Ben scored 18 in the clincher over the Lakers in 2004. LB understood that it was better to have somone have to guard Ben. Flip doesn't understand this at all. Under Flip, Ben's PPG has decreased to 7.3. You gotta throw these guys a bone once in a while. Where are the alley-oop slams? Sounds like the locker-room rumbles have some merit, especially where Ben is concerned.
     
  10. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Glad to see an "edge" in the lockerroom after three st8 losses... if they were casual about it then the fat cat responses would be accurate.

    Max, thanks for Ben's shot attempts... you could say Bens offense would improve with more touches but he wasn't very efficient last year... in his case he's reaping what he's sowed.... that was a major point of contention last year (running the offense thru Ben)...
    I support more options for Ben... as long as it's not back to the basket post ups... fine line of either playing 4 on 5 or trying to gain respect using Ben more.

    It looks like teams are becoming hip to the lob pass from Rip....
    Ben could maybe make a case for himself if he converted FT's... but he doesn't have much amo for his offensive demands.

    Bottom line nobody should be happy... look at the difference in Dice & Sheed's game lastnight... they played with the necessary chip.... we don't need a country club atmosphere... just mentally tough prepared players... if that takes some finger pointing and internal %%%%%ing so be it.
     
  11. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    No, not if you look at the FG% during that "progress". Unfortunately, it was too late for Ben to learn at least some offensive game.
     
  12. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Indeed Ben showed progress last year... some would say at the teams expense... other players could have scored at a better clip than Ben... then there's all of those mised FT's... similar to missed opportunities (minus getting Bigs in foul trouble)....
    IMO this is Flip's biggest challage trying to get production from Ben without bringing the offense down.
     
  13. max

    max All-Star

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    Yes as ggazoo pointed out. You can scan his career stats and he has steadily increased his scoring average every year except for this one. Matter of fact when we 1st signed him he was supposed to work on his offense.

    Ben was not always the best option last season and starting each game with a missed shot by Ben was not always the way to go. But Ben shot around .500 and was improving his Free Throws. His trouble at the line now has to be somewhat related to his lack of touches. Its much easier going to the line in the 4th quarter when you have already made a few shots and have 10 points in the bank.

    Guys like Rodman and Mutumbo did not care about their offense, did not want to hear about it. At least Ben cares and wants to improve.
     
  14. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    You're missing my point. The opposing team had to guard him because he was now considered an option. A wise move by Larry Brown. Now, nobody has to guard the guy. Thanks, Flip.

    Response to Merc: I find it absolutely unfathomable that Ben can't learn to shoot better from the line. His form looks the same every season: Bad. He does not use his lower body to shoot at all. He's quicker than any 5 that guards him. He could draw fouls 'til the cows come home. Teach the guy how to shoot FTs. Problem is, when guys are drafted into the NBA, a lot are considered a finished product and instead of working on weak areas, they work on areas they're already good at. Ben has never been one of those guys. I think he would be open to having a free-throw coach.
     
  15. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    he shot 42 and 45 % adn shoots 34% in the playoffs this far.
    As we've seen, O can run without Ben. There are many teams out there who are playing 4 against 5 on O or would you call Bowen (for example) an offensive threat?.
     
  16. max

    max All-Star

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    Ben Free throws. Its all Mental. I usually get to the games in time to see both shoot arounds and Ben is around 90% from the line.
     
  17. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    OK, maybe he needs a shrink. :nod:
     
  18. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    Bowen is a deadly 3-ball shooter. There are teams that play 4-on-5, but I can't think of any team still alive that plays it as much as the Pistons do.

    Ben is never going to improve his free throws because his problem is with his confidence, not his mechanics. Still, making him an offensive option, at least, is important.
     
  19. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    It is kinda hard to argue with the points per game and points differential this year compared to the past two.... it still hurts the team in critical possessions down the stretch... Flips answer is setting more picks for the other four starters to create space (even when double teamed)...
    T.O's play into this decision also.
     
  20. max

    max All-Star

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    I don't know. Seems like Ben was taking too many shots last year but Flip has really rolled it back quit a bit.

    Bottom line if one of your players is disgruntled over it then it will not kill the team to give him maybe 2 more attempts per game to keep him happy. Then he will then play better in all aspects.
     

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