Locker Room Rumbles?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, May 20, 2006.

  1. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Hold on boys I got a long one for ya.... aaaaaaahhhhh where do I start...
    (1)Dyess: Has a huge Beef, if he's not happy with the way he's being used don't interpret that as desiring more minutes. Dyess stated in the beginning of the season that he had to get used to being a strictly jumpshooter, he wanted the ball down low first and then work his way into a rhythm. NowIknow Dyess' down low game is something that leads into a Jumper, but If he's more effective as a fadeaway shooter.....THEN RUN THAT DAMN PLAY!!!!!!!!

    Dyess has two strong points on offense that are like butta baby (1)Turnaround j from the post (2) Baseline J off the pick and pop.....Why do we not run that immediately when he's in the game. In 3 seasons no team has shown that they could stop that play. Now Flip has him shooting from the top of the key extended. Get players the ball where they are comfortable.

    I'll take Dyess' 2 pt baseline shot off the pick and pop over that BS 3pt shot from Sheed on the Pick and Pop, I guarantee you that Dyess FG% on the baseline Pick and Pop is higher that Sheed's Pick and Pop for a trey. Not saying we should be be abandoning that 3pt play altogether, but let's get Dyess that shot as many times as we can in a game, especially when Cleveland has committed to switching a guard off on that play OH MY GOD man MILK THAT PLAY!!!! As soon as the guard switches hit him for the J or drop it into the post for the turnaround, Dyess shooting over Eric Snow is like having nobody on him at all. It doesn't take a genius to see that we are not using Dyess correctly, and dude has a load of talent and has another gear that we all witnessed in game 7 of last years finals.

    Answer me this when was the last time we ran the post-pivot alley oop play for Dyess??? Remember that play? Dyess posts up, he spins around the defender trying to front him and Chauncey used to throw the lob for an easy dunk??? I guess you need a system that does more than run Iso's, pick and pops and shoots from the perimeter to make that happen. Hate to be a complainer but man I really hate this new system, I hate losing the points in the paint stat EVERY SINGLE NIGHT, and I ABSOLUTELY HATE:mad: losing the #&*% board war EVERY SINGLE NIGHT.

    I have not been here much this season cause of my work schedule, but man I felt all season that this new system of perimeter offense was turning us into the Indy Colts of hoops, the only thing that kept me sane was when we demolished the Spurs by playing TOUGH defense and winning the board war, I felt that maybe this team could turn it on come playoff time, but Clev is showing that we can't. Are we really ready to battle Zo, Shaq, Haslem, and a motivated Walker (all jokes aside Toine boards with the best of them when motivated) and a guard who loves to play in the paint like Wade. Our Gm historically has put a team together that could bully oppossing frontcourts, doesn't happen anymore though[​IMG]
     
  2. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i agree darko hasn't proven the average fan wrong yet.

    actually darko is very good in the post. i read on the orlando boards and in the games i watched that darko is great in the post he just needs more touches. he sure looked good in the post against the pistons. as a matter of fact he looked good from the outside too. the only reason they aren't sold on darko is cost. darko is going to command top dollar and you can't spend that kind of money on a player you've only seen for half a season trying to knock off 2.5 years of dust.

    joe let ben become an unrestricted free agent. does that sound like a team sold on ben wallace being the heart of the franchise??
     
  3. max

    max All-Star

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    bbaal - why did you hear last summer that Dumars wanted to try Ben out for a year?
     
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    We all hear voices in our heads.

    I hear a voice saying that Ben will re-sign and leave a lasting legacy in Detroit.
     
  5. #1Pistonfan

    #1Pistonfan First Round Draft Pick 2x Fantasy Champion

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    bball jay = Lee357???????? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you say some off the wall %%%% man...
     
  6. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    in your opinion, maybe- I share his points of view, for instance...
    about Ben's extension- I hear voices that Joe D's gonna surprise us with a brillant move...
     
  7. DirtyMoney

    DirtyMoney First Round Draft Pick

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    The reason we are struggling like this is because everyone the Cav's know they don't have to play Ben, cuz he is nevr going to get the ball. He might get it on a fast break, but that's it. LB was a lot better at using him, making him another threat. I have been telling my brother this all game. Even Antoine Walker gets the ball. Everyone is doubting Flip's coaching. Are you guys suprised about the locker room convo after this series??
     
  8. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    no it's not just because he never gets the ball. it's because when he gets the ball the only thing he can do is dunk. to defend this all you have to do is foul him and that's as good as a turnover. antoine walker has plenty of offensive game that's why he gets the ball. you don't have to check ben. the best way to check him is to allow him to shoot and if he gets close foul him. no need to give him the rock.

    nope just a fan of the pistons. ben is just one of my least favorite pistons. the change in attitude he's had has really made me dislike him. i don't think i'm off the wall. i think a lot of you saying ben should get the rock more are saying some off the wall things. do you really think the pistons can afford to have 4 or 5 throwaway possesions in this series just to keep ben happy???? do you think ben hitting 2 more shots will make cleveland honest. they will still not check him and still double team with his man. ben has to work on his game and do what he does best if he wants a big contract at the end of the year. a max contract player should be able to win a series for you. ben hasn't done that.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Something none of the anti-Ben brigade can answer is what that move will be. I know Darko is gone, and he ain't coming back so there is no sense in hoping for that.

    What brilliant move is out there? Who do you see replacing Ben at center for the Pistons?

    Why I ask is that financially (and by common sense) you can remove a lot of the impossible ideas. So what, that exists in the realm of the real, can you see happening as a positive outcome?
     
  10. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    And yet, Micro, some people keep talking up Darko like he was still here. I'm surprised to hear the anti-Ben talk. Reasonable people look at the breadth of his work and realize how important he has been to this team and the city of Detroit. The guy will always be beloved by the best fans. The only reason he's %%%%%ing (if he actually is) is because he is as frustrated as any of us that Detroit has played such an underwhelming series. Yeah, screw this guy for caring so much. That's a great 'tude. He may not bring much offense, but he brings the defense and the intangibles. As far as the Hack-a-Ben strategy, I say use it to your advantage and get some of the Cavs bigs in foul trouble in the first half. Nothing wrong with that. :nod:
     
  11. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    Trade Ben? Don't resign Ben? Are you guys smoking weed this early in the day? I would wait until it gets dark out before you get stoned. :nod:

    Ben is DEEEEEEEEEE-TROIT Basketball. He is the manifestation of Piston DNA. Joe D has said this many many times. Without Ben there is no 3rd Championship!

    Wake up, all you grass smoking :P, grass is greener, couch GM's, and join reality... over here in Camp Piston.

    GO PISTONS!

    Joe will resign Ben for a long term deal and he will retire in our colors. Anything short of that is not acceptable.
     
  12. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    the anti-ben brigade seems awfully similar to to the DHOF club!

    Maybe you guys should take up some other cause apart from the Piston roster? How about getting the world prepared for Bird Flu or Global Warming. Do something worthwhile for a change.


    SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT-- The DHOF and Anti-Ben Brigade would like to invite you to jog over for a very special mixer at Lee357's house on 8 Mile to raise awareness for stupid Piston roster ideas normally only discussed on Web Based Forums for fear of retaliation from true Piston fans. In it's inagural year, this event promises to bring some of the worlds foremost message board loonies out of the holes and crevices they call home for a night of korean BBQ, 10 miles races, and fictional accounts of past Piston games. Muppet friendly fans only. Bring your line-ups and remember to wear your Darko jersey's. This is one night you don't want to miss. All proceeds to benefit the church of Carlos Arroyo.
     
  13. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    I am NOT in favor of getting rid of Ben if it's at all possible to keep him, but one off-the-wall idea I've been thinking of is Wallace and Prince for Paul Pierce and Kendrick Perkins. Perkins isn't a great athlete by any means, but he's very strong and bulky, has good defensive instincts, and is a better shotblocker than Ben is at this point in his career. He also has the rudiments of an offensive game, a go-to hook shot, etc. He could be a serviceable defensive-specialist starting center - or a complete bust. But it's a chance.

    That also gets Tayshaun out of the picture, as without a center as quick as Ben the $47 million man will be almost completely ineffective as a defender, and gets a major upgrade on the offensive end and (in my opinion) a slight upgrade on the defensive end.

    Obviously, I'm not Joe Dumars, and I pulled that out of my ass, but it's something.

    I also have a dream or two about Emeka Okafor left in my pipe.
     
  14. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    C'mon, man. I can't remember you EVER liking Ben. You have been complaining about the 4 time DPOY through the past 3 seasons, when he won series, disrupted offenses, grabbed boards, and hoisted the Larry O'Brien over his head. It doesn't have anything to do with his attitude. You just like fancy-pants offensive players who can take jump shots and are full of "potential"
     
  15. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    :loco:
     
  16. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Tay shouldn't be traded and neither should Ben. Especially not Tay. We just re-signed the guy. Also, Pierce isn't a winner.
     
  17. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    AHB- No one in this forum will ever confuse you with Joe D with ideas like replacing Ben with Perkins.

    Prince has been our best player this Post Season, also.

    Man, what team are you watching? Make sure to join Lee at his DHOF social. You might even lead a panel or something with bright ideas like those.
     
  18. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I am surely not an expert when it comes down to cap question. But as far as I know, since the Darko and Arroyo trade this team should be able to give Ben a max contract- so why are there any impossible ideas?
    Ben's great but this season he hasn't been the same, as already mentioned. And his physical ability is on the decline since no one of us gets younger. I don't predict anything- no one of us predicted the Ben Wallace trade years ago. The Hamilton trade. The Billups signing. So I'm just curious what Joe is going to do- and we all should know that when it comes to winning, he takes the right steps, although they seem hard at the beginning, as would sign- and trade Ben (for isntance) look like.
    He surely only sticks to him if he is worthy and that's something Ben still has to prove in this year's playoffs.
     
  19. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Seems to me that Ben used to have a jump shot, during those Brown years, and it was at least good enough to make somebody guard him. I can remember him dropping a few of them during those two years. It was the main reason, to me at least, why Brown was better then Carlisle.

    I can see wasting a few possessions in a game by giving Ben a few shots, if only to have someone thinking about guarding him. This 5 defenders against 4 offensive players just sucks :doh: .

    Here's a "pull it out of your @$$" deal for Joe. Trade Wallace X2 and Flip to the Magic for the 21 year old twin towers and Brian Hill. The Pistons should throw whoever else into the deal that it takes to get it done. I would suggest Mo or JMaxx. They would not take either of our old 5s.

    I like the twin towers and Dyce sharing the time at the 4/5 about equally, and I don't care who starts. I think the Pistons could do without the "Sheed-ictions" and it would be nice to have young 4/5s for the future. And try 5 on 5 at the offensive end

    I know, it's stupid and it will never happen and Orlando would not go for it in a million years, but there it is.

    OK, your turn.
     
  20. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    If Ben goes, Tay has to. I can't believe how overrated this guy has become. He's a mediocre defender who has made all-NBA teams only because of Ben Wallace. On the other end, he's a mediocre dribbler, a slightly above-average passer, and an opportunistic offensive player. He will never be more than a third option. He also strikes me as a bit of a choker.

    It's time to get rid of him while the getting's good. Let the other team discover that he's just an unathletic guy with ridiculously long arms and no right hand who can't pass out of double-teams.

    Pierce is as clutch as they come, and I think he'd be just fine on a winning team.

    Also please note that (unlike Okafor), Perkins is not somebody I'd want to trade Ben Wallace for. He's just an option I thought might be overlooked who could turn out to be a pleasant surprise, and maybe the massive upgrade at the 3 would offset the downgrade at the 5.

    As for lazyberbs' suggestion, Orlando would never go for that, and frankly neither would I. Dwight Howard is a great athlete, a fantastic rebounder with two dependable moves in the post and absolutely no other impact on the game. He's a terrible defender and shotblocker. Darko Milicic is a great athlete, a fantastic shotblocker with passing ability and ostensibly a jumpshot and absolutely no other impact on the game. He's a mediocre defender and offensive player. Both of them are overrated, and trading the Wallaces for them would drop the Pistons out of contention just about instantly. I think there are centers in the league who can do a passable job impersonating Ben if you squint a little, but I wouldn't trade Rasheed for any available big man in the NBA.
     

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