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Breaking News Looks like Joe is stepping down...

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by hitafreethrow, Apr 8, 2014.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    There was very little luck about it tbh. It took a ton of things coming together, a ton of good choices to make all of that happen.
     
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  2. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    It was a lot of luck about it. Even if he would have been the best GM in the business it still would have been alot of luck involved to build that team. The outcome of randomness is always a major factor in streaks like this.
     
  3. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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  4. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    That was a good article. Gores does deserve blame for the playoffs or bust edict.

    I'm having a hard time believing that someone who learned the business from Donald Sterling might have some issues.
     
  5. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Mitch Albom is such a good writer that he is able
    to sway his audience. Certainly, JD deserves a place
    in our hearts for all he has contributed, but he did
    stink it up overall, these last 6 seasons. Bye Joe....

    Gores is not as bad an owner as Mitch has potrayed
    either. He has made a lot of changes at the Palace.
    He also let JD retire with some dignity, and did not
    run him out on a rail last summer...which is what I wanted.
     
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  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Mitch Albom is notorious for picking sides. I am about to read the article, but I am suspect of his pieces.
     
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    So I read it. It's a fairly typical Albom piece. He plays on sentiment and heart strings.

    I didn't like the article, sure we can celebrate Joe's entire career and should. He's had an amazing run. But he has dug a hole for this franchise, with only one good young talented player, no coaching staff, and possibly no pick this year after a horrible season, and the richest draft in some time.

    Sports, whether one likes it or not, is about what you've done for me lately. Utah stuck by Jerry Sloan for a long time, but got zero titles out of the deal. Now it's nice to reward company men, but in a competitive arena, that's a luxury for winners, not for losers.
     
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  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    By that rationale, a streak this bad hasn't been all lack of skill but lack of luck as well.

    You can't say it's luck when he does well, and then not allow for lack of luck when he does not.

    And you're a bright guy, you understand that consistency (6 straight ECFs, back to back finals, with 3 different coaches) is a counter argument to random variation.

    I understand your POV, but I am assuming you weren't following the Pistons in 2000 and able to see Joe build this team into an NBA powerhouse. Did he have good fortune along the way? Absolutely. But the Sheed trade, getting Hunter back, and resuscitating McDyess' career were brilliant moves most GMs won't pull off in a 20 year career, let alone having the balls to dump Rick Carlisle for Larry Brown after an ECF appearance and back to back 50 win seasons with a roster that could be termed at best, "decent".
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  9. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm not basing that on the outcome of his decisions. The majority of his important decisions during the time I have followed the Pistons have been heavily questioned already when he made them. I do agree that he's most likely had his share of bad variance during this spell which made him look even worse.

    How is that a counter to random variation? Sure, if you start from the POV of how likely it is for a specific GM to pull off this streak of successful moves it will seem unlikely but that is how you get fooled by randomness. If you take a broader perspective it is alot less unlikely. I don't know how many GM:s we have had in the 4 major US sports but I guess a couple of hundred. How many of decisions of mid to major influence did Joe make to create this team? 10? 20? How many did he get right? 80%? Out of a population of a couple of hundred a few GMs are bound to get started with a lucky streak like that and the luckiest one of those few lucky will sure look like he is doing everything right.

    You are probably right that I am influenced by only following the Pistons during Joes dark years which make my doubts about Joes competence stronger than what they should be. I do think they still have some validity though.
     
  10. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I wasn't surprised about the butt-kissing of Dumars in the article. I was shocked about how harsh he was on Gores short tenure.
     
  11. Kristijan Francina

    Kristijan Francina First Round Draft Pick

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  12. vincy4fish98

    vincy4fish98 Bench Warmer

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  13. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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  14. S.J.

    S.J. All-Star Forum Donor

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    Is this good or bad? (Or just protocol?)
     
  15. vincy4fish98

    vincy4fish98 Bench Warmer

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    I think it is protocol for outgoing GMs. He won't have any real role or influence. He is now on the outside looking in and will look elsewhere or perhaps stay out of the game for a while.
     
  16. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I think will just keep Joe around to help negotiate Stuckey's new long-term deal.
     
  17. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    From Detroit News, 5 candidates to replace Dumars:

    ■ Scott Perry, vice president of basketball operations, Orlando Magic: Former vice president in Detroit (2008-12) and Seattle/Oklahoma City (2007-08), wealth of experience from player evaluation from the old-school side and analytics side, helping rebuild teams in Orlando and OKC, and former college coach at Cal. A native Detroiter, familiar with local terrain and strong rapport with today’s players.

    ■ Troy Weaver, vice president, Oklahoma City Thunder: Succeeded Perry in Oklahoma City, former player personnel director with the Utah Jazz. Former assistant coach at Syracuse, recruited Carmelo Anthony. Strong rapport with current players.

    ■ Mike Zarren, assistant general manager, Boston Celtics: Employed by Celtics for 11 years. Strong analytics background, reportedly turned down Philadelphia opening last season. At 38, among the younger NBA executives.

    ■ Gerrson Rosas, executive vice president, Houston Rockets: Accepted GM job with Dallas Mavericks in July 2013 before resigning and returning to Houston before season began. At 35, worked with the Rockets for nine seasons, rising through the player personnel and scouting ranks.

    ■ Travis Schlenk, assistant general manager, Golden State Warriors: Worked under former executive Jerry West for a number of years, and is also director of player personnel. Part of the analytics movement that helped rebuild Golden State.



    From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140413/SPORTS0102/304130044#ixzz2your9bAG
     
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  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I suspect if you go through the records of GMs in basketball, very few had as good of a 6 year run that JD did. He's probably top 10 in NBA history just for that run alone.

    Now without a doubt, he's made a ton of questionable to totally horrible moves in recent years. I think that part of his record is very relevant, and the freshness of those poor results weigh more on his future today than his past glories do.

    But that 6 year run was awesome. And it had a ton of great moves as I said, that most GMs won't imagine being able to pull off.
     
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  20. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Yep..... I was hoping that Gores would allow Joe to call a news conference after the last game was played and allow Joe to say that he was stepping down and Gores and few players could thank him for his service, the glory and the rings etc...wish each other luck and he goes out gracefully without the "forced out" moniker attached to that will now be forever written in stone in both the Detroit Pistons and Joe Dumars Wikipedia historical reference guides.
     

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