Home Miami Heat Friday Dec 28 2012

Discussion in 'December 2012' started by roscoe36, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

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    Hopefully it makes Frank re-evaluate his lineup. The proof is in the stats here folks...the starters arent meshing and while they have individual skills, their cohesiveness is far from stellar. The flaws in our starting unit are worse than the flaws in our subs.
  2. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Just think, if the Pistons had won that game on Wednesday, Bynum would have been in the running for EC player of the week. (unless a team had win a minimum of three games during a given week.):confused: Still four good games the past 8 days and they won three of them and lost the other in OT on the road.

    With five of the next six games at home before they fly across the pond, the Pistons have a chance to make up some ground on the Magic and Sixers and get closer to that 8th spot. The agenda to tank for another draft pick should be secondary and thought about until mid late March when you know you are out of it. Go for the wins and get back to talking about making playoffs.....50 more games to go....
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    It's pretty clear that we aren't going to win grind it out basketball games against real opponents with this roster. The best we can do is have Drummond protect the paint and try to open it up offensively through fast breaks, 3-pointers, and P&R's.

    Bynum's style in the last few has been sort of Lin-esque, but without the turnovers. He's constantly probing the defense without picking up his dribble. He's hitting 3's, hitting mid rangers, driving to the hoop, and he's also a threat to toss a no looker or alley oop at any time. Pretty much unguardable.

    Unfortunately, he has a long track record of below average 3-point shooting, so that component will likely evaporate. He's also undersized, so he's another one of our players that will probably have to play with Dre behind him on D at all times in order to avoid being victimized.


    It's funny how important Drummond has become to this team already. If Dre starts, I don't imagine a bench unit of Bynum, Daye, and CV having much success. There are a couple solutions. Either move some of those guys into the starting unit with him, or leave Dre on the bench unit and just ramp up their minutes considerably.

    Imagine a system where the starters gets Q1 and Q3 while the bench gets Q2 and Q4. We have so much parity within the team, that I don't see why that would be so strange.
  4. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    This game highlights what is wrong with the starting unit. And it has been going on for awhile. That second unit is actually getting some point guard play--from Bynum. Yes, Dre is playing defense but it is the point guard play that makes the Pistons second unit look like an NBA team lately. Now, Bynum is ironically really a scorer but his passing skills and penetrating with a threat to pass skills are better than Knight and Stuckey. The starting unit has guys who should not start: Maxiel (too short for the position and he has just tired out), Knight (who should be made to earn his starting role by developing skills) and Singler (who has slipped back as rookies usually do). You have Tay who tries to facilitate by helping Knight with the ball but who never panned out in that role and would be better off as a three point shooter on the second unit alternating with Singler and an often less than energetic Monroe. Now, if the Pistons are tanking, they should keep that first unit in tact. But the Piston draft pick will be high enough anyway to get a real point guard and or a shooter. No need to tank.

    With Bynum's threat to drive, shoot, or drive and pass and Andre in the middle commanding attention and Daye (finally hitting shots and rebounding) and CV popping threes, the Pistons actually run an offense with the second unit. The first unit rarely runs an offense as I have pointed out all year. You need someone who can run sets to win NBA games consistently.

    Moving forward, there are problems. Someone needs to take Monroe under his wings and coach him to hone his offensive skills. Monroe is an important asset to the team and the best scenario is to have him play next to Drummond next year. But he does not have the skill set or the mind set for that right now. Coaching. You don't want to lose Monroe. Drummond will be the center and that has to be communicated to Monroe. I really don't think this organization understands its assets. The development of Drummond is huge but you can't let Monroe ride the pine while Drummond plays. By next year, the point guard problem has to be addressed either through the draft or by free agency. Drummond needs a point guard who can get him the ball. And so does Monroe. These two will need shooters around them.
    kpaav likes this.
  5. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    That was a good one. The 2nd Q especially.

    Bynum has his flaws and he can't play like this consistently, but when he plays his best he can be the best Pistons player. His game is way more well rounded than someone like Stuckey's.

    I didn't mind a shot the Drummond, CV, Daye, Bynum, Singler and Tay groups took.

    Loved Drummond's drive and left handed layup. Bynum is the only other guy on the team who could do that.

    I'm going to feel like an ass if the Pistons second unit does become the talk of the NBA.
  6. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Let's look at this hot 2nd unit from a broad perspective. Who/what's on the court?
    1. A PG with crazy handles, quickness, the ability to turn the corner on the pick and roll, penetrate and dish or kick out when the defense collapses.....all things Brandon Knight CANNOT do.
    2. Shooters. Guys who can flat out shoot the ball are on the floor giving the spacing.
    3. A center who can set a solid screen, catch and finish above the rim, gobble up every rebound and protect the paint.
    Will said it best: he's surrounded by shooters. Dre is rolling hard to the hoop, taking help defenders with him and as a result the defense is leaving hot 3pt shooters wide open. Once the shooters start making shots that leaves Dre open in the paint. Once they start guarding against Dre and the shooters it's leaving Will open. That unit was running a real basketball set that is utterly indefensible when the shooters are making shots. Now
    The funny thing is.......It only works with Will Bynum. Brandon Knight can't turn the corner on the pick and roll and neither can Rodney Stuckey.
  7. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Oh and the announcers are absolutely IN LOVE with Andre Drummond, and I LOVE watching him rebound. There was one play where he rotated to help on defense, jumped to contest the shot, immediately turned around to rebound, grabbed the ball at it's highest point and the ball was about four feet away from his body.....AMAZING!!!! The way he explodes out of the floor and stretches those long arms to gobble up rebounds is absolutely intoxicating. And the killer is that he STILL hasn't even come close to understanding the physical tools that he's been blessed with, he's an absolute FREAK!
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  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Charlie actually pulled down a couple tough boards too. He definitely doesn't suffer from confidence issues.
  9. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

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    I love the picture in the free press of Drum huggin bynum at the end of the game. Drum genuinely loves the guy and that whole second unit seems to have the chemistry and passion you would expect from our starters. I hope to see more of them this sunday, I wanted Drum to be in the starting unit all year, but the more I think about it....I think we should just swap units and keep him with these guys. They are runners and Tay and Moose would slow us down too much and make a half court game.
    A few of us here have claimed the team has no identity, but I think this second unit does. They are an up tempo all out squad that can run you out of the gym and as long as they rotate when Drum has to pick up a driver? they can get enough stops on defense.
  10. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    That was some exciting stuff. It's mindblowing how a guy like Jason Maxiell can start over Drummond.

    Start the bench.
  11. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

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    Lets not get out of control here. So happy to see us get a win over the Heat, I remember a game last year where we nearly pulled it out over them at home and I said that was the turning point.

    This should be the turning point.

    If this was my one sample size, I would walk away wanted to start Bynum-Knight-Singler-BoT-Drummond. But we know that isn't the case, and I still don't like Bynums game that much and we know this is his ceiling.

    Will and KGREG mentioned shooters making that second unit work. This forum has been echoing that sentiment for oh, you know, as long as I have been here. Glad to see us bust up the reigning champs, not that it really means much. I am excited to see if this kind of play continues, or if we plummet back to Motown.
    roscoe36 likes this.
  12. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    He looks at guys like LBJ and wonders what the fuss is all about. He believes he is supposed to be on the court with them.

    It is hard to believe he is considered a project. How about the outlet bounce pass he threw to Daye that led to a CCG layup in the 2nd?

    This is going to sound farfetched and ridiculous, but shouldn't Drummond be on the periphery of the MVP discussion if he is making players out of Daye and Chuckles? They would need to start winning and he would have to play way more minutes, but he is doing what LBJ did in Cleveland with all those misfits.

    He can play with almost anyone and Frank has trouble getting him on the court.

    He is such a player that me makes all of Lee's lineups seem plausible.

    As Tommy Heinsohn would say, "I love Andre Drummond!"
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  13. Nemo

    Nemo Hall of Fame Forum Donor

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    I like the way Stuckey played that game.
  14. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    With one VERY BIG EXCEPTION........Greg Monroe; but that's more about Greg than Dre.
  15. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    I don't think posters are overstating what the second unit can do. Bynum has his limitations and is not a true point guard. Bynum is a score first type of player and too small for long term impact. Give him credit for improving his game, though. CV and Daye have not yet shown the ability to consistently hit the three game in and game out. They will get their chance now again. But the second unit highlights what the first unit has not shown the ability to do over many, many games that are not Washington. The second unit got penetration, got the ball to Drummond on occasion, had shooters spread out around the floor, etc. Importantly, there was someone, Bynum, who was running the offense, who got into the lane and at least had the threat of making the pass now and then.

    This team is going to be stuck if it doesn't address its point guard issue by next year. And the integration of Monroe with Andre should be a major issue for the staff. Monroe's offensive game has to be honed to fit in next to Andre.
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  16. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    True

    He had a total of 4 rebounds, 2 of them were "hard fought for, rebounds" But techinally...True.

    I hate to say it but....TRUE. He played defense primarily at the 2-Guard spot and he was indeed a big reason why Ray Allen was 2-10 from the field. Daye does indeed do an outstanding job of using his length to bother shooters on the perimeter. Now against Ray Allen that kind of defense is as good as gold......against a 2-Guard who likes to put the ball on the floor and drive, like say......Dwayne Wade, Daye would have been useless. I guess in those instances you go with Singler or English.

    False. He made a total of 4 shots, 2 from beyond the arc, a dunk on a break and mid range J on the baseline. That in no-way-what-so-ever can be considered "several"

    Kind of True. I will admit that after Daye hit those 2 three point shots Miami was very hesitant to help off of Daye.
  17. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I didn't even notice he wasn't playing until late in the 3rd or early in the 4th Q.
    They've hardly played together. Wouldn't it make sense that they be given the same amount of time to gel as Maxey or Austin Daye gets seeing that they're their 2 best players?

    Frank sets them up to fail by waiting until Monroe is just about ready to be subbed out to pair them up.
  18. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Daye can still use his length to back off of a Wade and encourage him to shoot from the outside. They don't really have a matchup for him outside of Daye. These gimmick lineups offer the Pistons best chance to win.
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  19. Mark V

    Mark V Bench Warmer

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    Wow.. I missed a great game. I was watching the highlights and Bynum absolutely killed e'm! Also, who else thinks Andre Drummond has the potential to be the next Hakeem Olajuwon? Call me crazy but from what I saw, in the highlights, he has the potential to develop post moves that I thought was only exclusive to Olajuwon. It's crazy to think that but Drummond is near 7'0 ft and 260+ lbs yet he moves like a guard out there.
  20. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I have this feeling that the success of Bynum, CV, and Daye is a mirage and it will vanish as quickly as it appeared. If Joe D could deal any or all of these guys, it seems like now is the time.
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