Mr Big Ego needs to go

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by theWORM, Jun 19, 2008.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,411
    Likes Received:
    2,767
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    I like all of our players. However, if I had to pick 2 to trade, Rip and Max would come to mind. Rip has been the leading scorer here for years. Combine that with his all-star appearances and he has huge trade value. If we can essentially trade him for a premier scorer, like Anthony, then it may not be a bad idea. Of course, we need to add to the trade to match salaries, so it leads us to step 2.

    Maxiell is great and all, but I think that Amir could do what he does. To me, those two guys are redundant. No point in having one of them sit the bench next year in the playoffs. And Lord knows they can't play the 4 and 5 together. Maxiell's salary is still low, so we can't get that much for him alone.

    So, yeah, package Rip and Maxiell and we will get back slightly more that we will lose (because of the existing redundancy at the 4). The other team gets back most of what they lose in their starter and either adds another starter in Maxiell, or at worst a 6th man of the year candidate.
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,237
    Likes Received:
    2,106
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Chauncey doesn't pay our bills. Until he does, I think our mandate of sponsoring debate and diversity of opinion is a good and noble one.

    There are no sacred cows.
  3. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,201
    Likes Received:
    349
    Location:
    Ann Arbor/Chicago/Walland, TN
    Denver would probably do it, but the CBA gods will not. Close, but no cigar, and the Pistons don't have other salaries to add in. Rip and Max feeding off Iverson's penetration would be fun to watch though.

    You can get really close to a legal trade of...

    Rip / Dyess / Max

    for

    Mello, Hunter, Kleiza.

    It's only off a a couple of hundred thousand that surely could be accounted for somehow.
  4. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    May 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,999
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is my major concern. I can see Stuckey going either way. Sure he looks great at times, but there are other times when the team just falls apart without Chauncey. The sentiment we finally got a back-up, why trade the starter applies here too.

    Maybe it's b/c i believe the biggest problem with Billups was that Flip let him do whatever he wanted and gave him too much control. I'm not expecting Billups to be our go to "Kobe". He never was, and i liked him much better when he didn't constantly try and played within the team. Can he take over at times in the 4th? Yes, but to try to do it every game and to force it irritates me. I think Curry can bring his ego down, and if Curry doesn't do it specifically, loosing PT to Stuckey if he takes stupid shots and doesn't play (attempt) defense will do it real quick.

    And Chauncey will fall in line IMO. He's not a "cancer" by any means. He's too important to just trade without a solid plan in place, and i don't know if relying solely on Stuckey is a good enough one.

    You do it only if he's netting you a a major player.
  5. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    11,944
    Likes Received:
    452
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Land of the Spuds.
    I would like to apply for the position. I'm really feeling picked on lately.

    [SIGN]
    Darth is a victim
    [/SIGN]
  6. PistonFanInCavsTown

    PistonFanInCavsTown First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    Exactly. The dude's got a wife and kids, who I'm sure see very little of him during the NBA regular season and playoffs. I don't blame him one bit for taking a summer off to rest and spend time with his family.

    I know I'm a fan of the team, and that I might get too attached to the players, but I think this thread is ridiculous. EVERY NBA player has to have a significant personal ego in order to convince himself that he's the best, and to keep his confidence up when his play is struggling or his team trades him, etc.

    Maybe when Chauncey said that he hoped Joe didn't make major changes, he was already of the conclusion that Flipper was gone. I think some other people here have argued the same thing - that unless a very good trade is proposed, we may be better off not shaking things up just for the sake of change.
  7. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,390
    Likes Received:
    380
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    Very good point.
  8. Smoooth

    Smoooth First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    Agreeed.
  9. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    2,669
    Likes Received:
    321
    Location:
    Michigan/Glasgow
    I'd argue 2nd best team.... heck i think cleveland might have been able to handle the lakers in the finals... I think the west was the darlings choose all year but the east wasn't nearly as bad everybody says...
  10. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Messages:
    6,151
    Likes Received:
    1,032
    Location:
    Georgetown, KY
    [SIGN]AMEN!![/SIGN]
  11. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    2
    Okay geniuses who do we trade him for? Even if trades work out under salary cap rules the hard part is getting both teams to agree. You can't just say that one of the Pistons best players has to go. If we cannot get a good PG back in return I do not want to see him go.

    The biggest issues are at the C and forward positions. If Lindsey Hunter becomes a coach on the sidelines for the Pistons we would have a 3 guard rotation of CB, Rip, and Stuckey. This would give enough time for all 3 players to make a significant contribution (30 mpg for all 3 if split evenly)

    In the frontcourt we need to make a move. Either a trade or a good pick up in free agency. Don't go insane at this statement, but I think Sheed is going to step it up next season because he is going to have his first black coach in Michael Curry. Think about it.
  12. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    2
    By the way the only trade for a good PG that seems possible right now is AI. If we traded CB and another Piston for him that would be just fine.
  13. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    11,887
    Likes Received:
    1,303
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo

    I've thought about it and I hope it isn't true. Sheedd may have thrown Flip under the moving bus, but I can't imagine it had ANYTHING to do with Flip being White.
  14. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    May 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ottawa County, Mi
    And I believe I strongly made my point without crossing any lines.

    And your opinion is, correctly so, the only one that matters.
  15. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,887
    Likes Received:
    992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    I don't think he sandbagging because of the coaches skin color..that's a huge insult to Sheed.

    On the other hand he did play well for Gar Heard.:sssh:
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,237
    Likes Received:
    2,106
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Yeah, that wasn't an issue. I just don't want people to think that there will be boot put to butt for certain player related posts.

    You'd be surprised. I try to consult with others as much as possible. The guys on the staff team are a great resource in this regard. Fundamentally, structurally, I do push the cart, but usually wait for the green light from others, so this place isn't run like a dictatorship.

    Believe me, there are a lot of wacky opinions posted that I totally do not agree with. But my personal opinions and what is good for the board are two different things. I fail at that sometimes, but it is my goal.
  17. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    2
    Not exactly. Remember that LB helped Sheed be an effective player and teammate. In fact, he did that better than any other NBA coach has done in the past, and he was white. Most of it has to do with the coach's philosophy and so far Curry seems like the hard work/toughness type of coach just like LB. I think race is a part of it though. Everyone might deny it in their minds, but race is prevalent in 99% percent of situations. Everyone has prejudice. Some may have more prejudice than others, but it always there.

    This team was tough in 04 and 05, toughest in the league in my point of view. SA was right up there but I would say they are more fundamentally sound and have great gameplans, while the Pistons were the most resilient team in the NBA. I think the main issue was lack of leadership. Flip did not bring it. Chauncey was too laid back to bring it. When Ben was here he was always against Flip's tactics so it took away from his leadership. Finally Sheed was the emotional leader but just like Ben, Flip partially messed that up. Is that Flip's fault? Partially. We could call Sheed selfish, but I just think at this point in his career he needs a coach to be leader for himself to be leader. I think the point where Sheed could be the leader and face of a franchise died in Portland. I think Michael Curry could be that coach.
  18. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    2
    That's not what I meant. LB was white and Sheed listened to him more than anyone. 98% of the issue is the coach's philosophy. Race is always an issue though and if that makes me insult the world so be it.
  19. Mike Honcho

    Mike Honcho First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Holland, MI
    No way he was the best. Rip was. You can however say he was the starting point guard on the 3rd best team in the NBA. The case can also be made that he is in the top 5-10 PGs in the NBA. Fact is that he is clearly in the latter part of his career, has started to become a bit injury prone, and he also has at least the second most (possibly the most) trade value on a team looking to make changes. Trading him has to be on the table.
  20. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,887
    Likes Received:
    992
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    Stuckey is injury prone too then.

Share This Page