Mr Big Ego needs to go

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by theWORM, Jun 19, 2008.

  1. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Thank you for such an eloquent assessment of CB. You have put the enitre thread in perspective.

    I totally agree with your post.
     
  2. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    No, I think that you need to deal with the fact that CB is a goner, stop breastfeeding him TFD I think he is grown enough to drink from the bottle or at least a cup anyway.

    You have to be on CB's payroll because of your whining everytime CB's name is mentioned in trade talks.

    Are you his wife, just fabricating being a loyal Pistons poster?

    You got it reaaaaaal bad. (lol)
     
  3. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I guess that I see things a lot different as far as CB is concerned than most people on this forum.

    I treasure hard work, dedication, hard work. I just don't go for a lot of talk, and if you are gonna put it out there, you better darn well be able to back it up.

    Curry put it in perspective for me during his press conference. He spoke on those individuals who expressed and unwillingness to play hard and was a source of dissension, Rasheed was just the person who was more open with his antics in front of the media.

    If I was a betting person, I would say that person(s) in order would be CB, then mayb e Rip.

    If you are the leader of a team, the people that you are leading tends to take on the personality of that person, whether you are a good leader or bad.

    Do we all agree that CB is the leader of this team???????????

    I have listened to people on this forum who actually believe that CB is irreplaceable.

    Hopefully Joe will make a trade that will get us a great backup PG. I would love to see Stucky start. Maybe some of you are too young to remember. Stuckey reminds me of a young pg that came to the pistons and went on to win 2 ships. He doesn't possess the passing skills yet but a lot of folks back then was not happy that a young pg out of indiana was gonna be the starting pg.
     
  4. theWORM

    theWORM First Round Draft Pick

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    Ah... Stuckey is a rookie. Billups has entered the league around the time you were born. So no kidding Stuckey is less consistent than Billups. Hence my suggestion for a veteran to share the load with Stuckey in place of Billups.

    Right back @ you raxrets... I guess. Are there any adults out there?
     
  5. theWORM

    theWORM First Round Draft Pick

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    Again, nice work at justifying keeping him around. I would like to agree, but can't for two reasons:

    1. I think you will find next season Billups will have obviously aged for ALL to see. Someone already pointed out how Coach K was gushing a couple of years back about how Billups would lead his team to gold. My times have changed.

    2. Maybe he will fetch some value as an expiring contract? But having him come off the books at the end will probably be useless to us. I don't recall Detroit having too much success using cap space to attract marquee free agents, or even tier 2 free agents in the past. And if you factor in that, with very little exception, the last few championship winners had a core of players who were either drafted or acquired by trade, trading current Pistons sooner rather than later is PROBABLY the best thing to do in the short as well as long term, assuming good value can be had in return OF COURSE.

    Now, for all you Billups lovers (I'm with you Armygirl!), I could be completely off mark. Billups could lead us back to the finals next season and the season after, dumb words and questionable attitude and all, or help another team get over the hump if he is traded (like he has played a "BIG PART" in helping the US re-capture the gold that has not happened yet! Ha!), but I would wager that the signs suggest otherwise. Time will tell.
     
  6. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    I'm for trade them all if it helps to finish "stagnation" in this team. I have felt extremely annoyed when somebody says like "oh they didn't play well becauze of their coach wasn't inspirational one." My reaction to this: where is your f...ing pride, players ? You do not play for you coach, you play for your fans and for themselves!!!

    Everyone in this team is responsible. Even those who just "follow the lead".

    Realistically, ther is not good trade for billups alone: other PG-s are either untouchable, too old, damaged goods or ridiculous contracts.

    Best case scenario would be sign and trade with Elton Brand for Sheed's expiring contract, but this is unlikely.

    back to topic: I think, CB's biggest problem has been that he has no choice but try to be a hero, because of Sheed, Tay and Dice were e.g. in Boston series, politely saying, wildly inconsistent. And this is not CB's fault.Surely CB has been cocky and complacent but in this series he had to carry burden of invisible Tay and emotionally labile Dice and Sheed.
     
  7. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    How would you address the problem I brought up about the lack of a consistent jumpshot from Stuckey? Or do you not see that as a problem? Yes, Stuckey has wowed us with glimpses of his skills, but as of yet teams are not focussing their defensive efforts to stop Stuckey. I doubt his name is even brought up on opposing coaches pre-game briefs.
    But once he becomes the man, all his deficiencies will be brought glaringly to light. Are you prepared to have this team struggle through a season of PG growing pains right now, and being a borderline playoff team just to be rid of Chauncey?

    I for one, am not that desperate yet.
     
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I thought Stuckey had a very consistent jumper late in the season and in the playoffs. I mean, CB won the playoff MVP shooting less than 39% from the field.

    In fact, I remember through the playoffs, wincing when Stuckey would shoot from 18 feet, but surprisingly many of those shots went in.

    I'm the last guy to deify a basketball player (particularly a rook), but I had a lot of doubts about Stuckey, and he's way ahead of my expectations. I don't know that means that he can replace Billups, but for like $2.5 million a year, (almost $10 million less that could be spent on another position) it seems like an option to consider.
     
  9. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Man, I'm SO on the fence regarding what to do with Chauncey. I think that webz & army BOTH make compelling arguments.

    What I DON'T want to see is a situation where both Tay AND Chauncey are shipped out in a deal.
     
  10. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    I'm with you on this 100%. People have off days, but a person who is not self-motivated is not a person that should be playing for the Pistons. The motto should be lunch pail-going to work The coach should bench players with indifferent or divisive attitudes. That is where Flip failed. You don't need to shout and scream, just cut the players minutes.

    CB has that easy going, coasting attitude which drives many fans, including me, nuts. In retrospect, Ben though declining, was the embodiment of the Piston mentality. I think his departure has worsened this team's exagerrated self-image.
     
  11. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Best argument I've heard for letting Flip go so far...good job...:)
     
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Keep in mind that his effective FG% was 45% because he drained a lot of 3's. And he also got to the free throw line a lot, where he shot 89%.

    On the other hand, he also had 2.6 turnovers per game that year compared to 1.3 in this post season. His assists were about the same.

    I guess I agree with you though.
     
  13. round

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  14. round

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    I think there is a great chance that there will be no move made, I think he was just sending the word to the players that they are tradeable now, for the last 4 years other teams knew that there was no point in offering a trade because our core was not even open for discussion. Notice what he said in the currey news conference, he's talking about other teams best players.... he is only going to make trades that can make us better, not just making trades to make trades. As much as folks want to talk about the "failure" of detroit basketball.... in the 6 ECF's we have made... we have won one championship, lost to the champion another 3 times (spurs, heat, celts) only twice have we lost to a team that wasn't crowned the best in basketball.

    As much as we hate how things have gone, with a continued influx of youth and a coach that "demands" them to do things.... we don't need to throw away sheed or billiups just to make a change...
     
  15. round

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    we don't know what we really have in stuckey.... the postition that controls the game.... you can't just go making a move like that if you plan on being an elite team next year which we hope to be.

    this dantley comparision is sorta missing a big point... we knew what we had in a certain playing.... the worm... how ironic GRIN..... the team knew he needed to be on the floor and dantley wasn't happy with a reduced role... have yet to hear from billiups he's afraid to have his mins cut... we also got a talent in return that wasn't a major decline in talent...

    So we can do a trade for billiups if you get a pg that is able to be a starting pg for us....

    now the debate would be apples to apples....
     
  16. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Right on, round.
     
  17. Mike Honcho

    Mike Honcho First Round Draft Pick

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    The point that has been brought up though, and one I happen to agree with, is that Billups' trade value is at a high point where it is going to begin to go down rapidly as teams realize his skills are on the decline. Since PG is one position where Joe is convinced (and he is the only important one in the discussion, not how I or any of us feel about Stuck) we have a star riding the bench, it makes sense to clear the way and trade Billups. I doubt highly we trade for another PG (maybe a throw in variety), but I would love to see us use the exception on a wily vet to back Stuck up (think the Hunter mold). If we pick up solid frontcourt help it will greatly help Stuckey's transition by taking some of the pressure off him.
     
  18. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I will take a motivated Stuckey over a big headed, arrogant, too much ego who plays well until the playoffs gets here and have a no-name called boobie gibson take his cookies billups.

    Stuckey who was tossed in a playoff atmosphere and performed admirably over a "I have a ring already" Billups, I will take any day.

    Listen, I am a detroit born and bred, die hard going to the Joe to see little Zeke in his first game pistons fan.

    The guy does not play hard, he is very, very, soft. Detroit is a blue collar town with hard working folks, he is a disgrace to the motto taking it to work every game, and going to work mentality.

    Hell yes, start Stuckey, he is relentless and is learning on the fly. You heard Curry, he is a gym rat. I love it.

    Billups may come back next season ( I hope not), if he does; I hope he does a helluva lot better in the playoffs than that pathetic display of basketball that he has exhibited in the last 3 playoff games.

    I know, I know, "it's the hamstring this year", you guys are notorious in making excuses for Billups, at what point will you all drop that mentality of, " well he's the best we can do", come on already.

    Next year this time...with Billups running the point, we will be in exactly the same position, sitting here in PF making more excuses of what billups coulda, shoulda and woulda done.

    My words to Joe is this: "what are you gonna do Joe, are you gonna pick from the menu, or just wait and see what is on the buffet? I say he needs to pick from the menu.
     
  19. round

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    agreed his trade value on its own may never be better... but remember his contract is very fair.... so are we going to get equal value for him? not to many pg's out there with roughly his talent are making what he makes... there making a ton more, so can we get equal talent back for him? if not... i'll stick with what we have. He looked really good folks till he got hurt, he was also going to the hole like he used to do more. A stuckey rub off? could be.....
     
  20. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    Billups makes me grimace almost every time he opens his mouth. I can not think of any player we have ever had that irritates me as often. I recall him trying to take credit for Ben's DPOY award also. The way he handled his exit from the Olympic team is classic Billups foolishness. He always says the wrong thing at the wrong time.

    that said, he rarely turns the ball over. he used to be a pretty clutch fourth quarter player... for a minute there I thought he was headed to the hall of fame, but now I think he will have to be satisfied with his one ring and Finals MVP award. he is aging and he is not as good as he used to be. if we don't trade him this year we won't get anything for him in the future.

    For me it comes down to being tired of the guy, really. At this point I would settle for Stuckey and the growing pains associated with starting him just to be rid of Billups and his ego. Billups doesn't make it fun for me to be a fan. I just don't like him.

    good thing I'm not GM. huh?
     

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