NBA Finals: Dallas Mavericks vs. Miami Heat

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by LanierFan, Jun 4, 2006.

  1. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

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    No I don't think Avery will be called a bum. A bum is someone who is getting his butt kicked in the playoffs by a lesser team and doesn't make in-game adjustments. Flip is a bum.

    Avery is going to be a great coach. He may have gotten outcoached by Pat Riley in Game 4. That's one game. Dallas dominated the first three games until the unfortunate meltdown. I think too much is being made of this Miami momentum. Dallas couldn't get a basket last night. Is that really because of Miami's defense, or because Dallas had a bad shooting night? I predict that Dirk and Terry will both have better shooting nights in the next game.

    Dallas in 6.:nod:
  2. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Stack has been suspended for Game 5 for his flagrant foul on Shaq in game 4.

    Check out the link and a vid of the foul below.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2487553

    No question it was a hard foul. I'd have to say that the first half of it was clean, Stack initially went for the ball with his left hand.

    But because Shaq had it protected on his right side, Stack went for his head with the right hand.

    Tough call. I don't know, what do you guys think? Should he have been suspended?
  3. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    I feel strongly that he should not have been suspended, because: a) Shaq's huge weight advantage over Stack mitigates the harshness of the foul; b) Shaq did not appear to have been injured; and c) suspending a key player at this stage in the playoffs can determine the outcome of the series. As far as I'm concerned, Stack was just playing hard and making a foul that he knew would keep Shaq from scoring (which is the way you are supposed to foul Shaq). Shaq, too, plays a very physical game (see, e.g., Ben's loose teeth), and he ought to be able to take as well as give punishment. In my view, this kind of suspension of a key player should only be meted out where there is an intent to injure and a resulting injury. The sad thing is that the suspension could give Miami the advantage in game 5, and the momentum from three straight victories could give them what they need to win game 6 and the championship.
  4. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    It's only a tough call for me because I really want Miami to lose.

    I really was hoping to look at the play (thanks for the link Jammer) and say "yep, that was total B.S." But I watched it several times. If I'm a Miami fan I would be livid. I'm pretty sure if somebody did that to one of our Pistons we would be calling for their heads.

    I'm sorry guys. It sux. It really does. But it looked like a dirty hit and Shaq could have been hurt pretty bad. If I'm the NBA, I suspend him. It's too bad Dallas took the gas pipe in game 3 and put themselves in this position. They seem to be unraveling.

    You know, we shoulda taken care of business ourselves and not hoped another team would knock off the Heat. We'll have to wait till next year, but fair is fair, and IMO, the suspension was warranted. He looked like he was trying to hurt him. He even strutted off like he had made a point.

    Maybe Shaq should have been suspended in the past for his own stuff, but I am with the NBA on this one. It was on national TV too. They can't send a message that crap like that is ok.

    Just my humble opinion. :humble:
  5. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Yeah, I have to agree with you completely Darth. I was on the fence about it before, but your post helped me see the light. Good suspension. You've got to say one thing for the NBA, they aren't afraid to suspend guys in the playoffs. How many games is that now?

    Its a combination of 1. me not wanted Miami to win, 2. Shaq getting away with crap all the time and 3. the Mavs completely tanking the past 2 games.
  6. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Avery is no bum. You see him screaming at his players and right now he's probably telling them to take it to the hole. We all know Joe D. had to of talked to Flip about the jumpshooting. I hope next season Flip toughens up and tells these guys what to do. He's supposed to be the coach.
  7. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    It could of turned out worse. Wade had to push Shaq to the ground to stop him from killing Jerry. If Shaq got suspended:second: place for the Heat.
  8. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I wasn't sure if Shaq was trying to come back at him or if Wade just pushed him at the wrong time and knocked him back down. I think Shaq's too smart to get tossed on a play like that.
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm so mad about the Stackhouse suspension. Only because it is a reminder of how soft the league has become.

    Sure Stack fouled him really damn hard. How else are you supposed to stop Shaq on a layup? It's a foregone conclusion that you hammer and shove.

    It's such a double standard with Shaq. He's big so he's allowed to use his size to dominate, but when players try to body him up or match his physical presence that pushes them over the line for what is allowed.

    Sickening.

    GO MAVS!
  10. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Yep. you can't even breath on guys anymore and it sucks. People will be comparing Wade and Lebron to Jordan, but they wouldn't even do half of what Michael did if they played back in time. If jordan played today...:jaw::scared::bolt:
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    himat, if you were able to see the Pistons play in late 80s, you would see how much more of a man's sport it was. Teams regularly scored 100+ in the playoffs (without a lot of gratuitous free throws) and the pace was generally fast but players were very tough and physical. They didn't look or play for bailouts. They knew they were going to get fouled and would try like hell to make the basket regardless of the whistles.

    Today's NBA is more gentle, but lacks passion and drama. The "great" players pad their numbers with foul shots or 3 pointers. The ability to spin, fade and crossover are missing.

    I still love basketball, but this is not the best that many of us have seen.
  12. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    It wasn't even like this a couple years ago. Ever since the Pistons won in 04 the foul calling has been changed. Pistons kept teams under 70 5 straight games. It's almost impossible to do that even once now.
  13. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Welcome to the wuss-ified NBA.
  14. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    If we keep the debate to one particular play rather than looking at the overall trend of refereeing in the NBA, I still believe it appears Stackhouse intentionally attempted to hurt Shaq.

    I think we neither desire nor require that kind of behavior in the NBA. Hard fouls are cool. Attempts to injure are not. I thought Stack's foul fell into the latter category.
  15. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    I'm not sure myself that Stack was trying to hurt him, but I'll certainly agree that it was on the more thuggish end of the scale between a hard foul and a dirty play. I don't think it was that different from Posey running right over one of the Bulls' players in the first round (I think it was Hinrich), and nobody argued about the suspension he got for that one, so it seems justifiable to me to suspend Stack for this one.
  16. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    i think the suspension is a joke, it wasn't that bad of a foul. looks like the nba wants a game 7.
  17. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    To me, a flagrant foul worthy of suspension involves certain dangerous moves:

    * Targeting the head
    * Throwing a guy by the jersey or arm
    * Undercutting the legs
    * Hip-checking without going for the ball
    * A full-swing clothesline or shove
    * Body slamming to the floor

    Stackhouse's foul wasn't quite there for me. Giving Shaq a hard foul when he's moving at full speed is like trying to foul a parade float -- you just pick a spot and throw everything you've got. But we've seen enough suspensions in these playoffs to know how it would turn out. Meanwhile Shaq can loosen teeth without being "flagrant," and he'll be allowed to do it just like Mutombo and Malone were. Big men get certain privileges.
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    To me the main message the NBA is trying to send is score more points. Now players on both sides are going to be thinking twice before fouling someone on route to the basket.

    After all that talk about the new NBA and how obsolete defense is Shaq is only avg 13.8 PPG and no team has scored over 100. Dallas only scored what 7 points in the 4th quarter of game 4.
  19. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I don't think Shaq was looking to get back at Stack at all. I think it was the exact opposite. He was trying to downplay the foul. I think he was just trying to get back up really quickly to show that he wasn't affected by the hard foul at all - kind of a pride thing.Then Wade came over to try and help him up, but Shaq was already off balance trying to steady himself.
  20. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Agreed.

    IMO, he definitely intentionally went for the head on the foul, no doubt in my mind.

    A hard foul is one thing. A dirty foul is another. If he'd stayed away from the head, I think it would have been a clean, hard foul. But he went headhunting and that isn't cool, no matter how big Shaq is.

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