NBA Finals: Dallas Mavericks vs. Miami Heat

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by LanierFan, Jun 4, 2006.

  1. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    What's this I'm reading about a timeout being called after the first of Wade's final FTs? There seems to be some controversy about whether the Mavs actually asked for that timeout -- which is significant, because if they had called timeout after the second FT, they could have inbounded from midcourt.

    Anyone care to enlighten me?

    I also understand that Wade may have been guilty of a backcourt violation on his final play. I wonder if that's what AJ seems so agitated about in that clip?
  2. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    Agree with your assessment, at least with respect to Howard and Nowitzki. Wade would not even have had the opportunity to win it for Miami at the end if those two players had done the basics. Howard missed two free throws in OT, Nowitzki (a 93% FT shooter in the regular season) split a pair in OT, and Nowitzki's atrocious defense on Payton allowed him to score an easy bucket in OT. Dallas does not know how to finish out tight games. If they did, they could have taken two games in Miami, but instead lost all three. We'll see what happens in Dallas. If they aren't demoralized, they can still win this thing.
  3. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    The Dallas Morning News had nothing on either of these items. What they reported was that Avery Johnson signalled to his players after the frist free throw that he wanted a timeout called -- meaning a timeout after Wade shot his second free throw. He apparently did not explicitly say he wanted the timeout called after the second (and not before), and Howard interpreted Johnson to be asking for a timeout after the first free throw. The paper further reported that the referee indicated that Howard asked for the timeout not once, but twice. There is nothing in the Dallas Morning News suggesting that Wade may have been guilty of a backcourt violation on the last play.
  4. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    I was thinking the same thing. Josh Howard looked like C-Webb after his boo-boo. On that last play, Hubie thought Harris leaned in to Wade with his leg. Like all of you, I disagree. I hate when the refs "decide" the game. But I will say Dallas still should have won this thing. They missed some FTs. Miami's defense in the waning minutes has been pretty good, too. Nowitzki made an impossible shot toward the end of regulation. It's clear, however, that the NBA has anointed Wade the league's "new superstar." He got the star treatment in the end there.
  5. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    But as micro said a few posts earlier, it doesn't matter what Harris did--they called the foul on Dirk!
  6. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    This is Stern's new NBA and Wade has exposed it. 25 free throws. Wow! Exciting basketball. Did you see the illegal screen call in the 3rd with Dallas up 8 and rolling? How about the double team on the side corner in the fourth with the touch foul on Wade 25 feet from the hoop?

    Refs don't call a foul with time running out unless it is practically a take done.

    Refs don't bail out a shooter who takes it upon himself to drive through the whole team at any point in the game.

    Whether Dallas or Miami played better is meaningless with calls such as these. So is the Howard time out call. The game was over. Wade threw up a wild shot and Miami was beaten. Sorry, I am out of the rest of these playoffs.
  7. max

    max All-Star

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    No its not very exciting. And we wonder why team USA is so vulnerable in the International games. These guys get so used to getting bailed out than it becomes part of their game. Wade flying through out of control should not merit a foul but he seems to get it everytime.
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    This is a repost of mine from elsewhere, regarding the Mavs being at fault for less than aggressive play.

    20 years ago, finishing was the key to scoring, not flopping. If we're going to blame the Mavs for trying to make baskets by avoiding contact, instead of running into players and dancing like spasmodic chickens, then that's a vote for dumbing down the sport.

    We're being conditioned to accept low scoring games, with 20%+ of the scoring coming from fouls. That's lousy basketball no matter what league you are in.

    Bottom line, Wade is a great finisher, and if he can't finish that drive, the Heat didn't deserve to win the game. The irony is that with minimal contact, Wade bailed out on his own shot.

    The Mavs earned that one point lead even with their missed FTs and passive offense.

    I posted Iverson and Kemp vids at PF last night. Tons of dunks with contact. Didn't see many AND1s. Those guys looked to put the ball in the hoop, not for a bailout from the referees.

    You've essentially got the same problem hockey had. Players flopping for calls. It's time to start calling the flops and encourage these guys to make shots.
  9. 1989

    1989 First Round Draft Pick

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    I agree, micro. Unfortunately, David Stern is moving us in the other direction and I think it will be a long time before the pendulum starts its return swing.

    As for dunks with contact, I haven't watched those vids yet -- I don't have a way of watching wmv files on my home computer -- but I wanted to say that those kinds of dunks are my favourite. One of the best I've ever seen dates from the mid to late '80s. 'Nique went baseline on the Celts and rose up against the entire Celtic frontcourt. There was a tangled clash of bodies and limbs right at the rim -- four guys! -- but 'Nique held on, floated in the air for a moment with the ball in both hands way down around his knees, and when the Celts started to fall, CRAMMED it with vicious violence on top of all three of them. There was no foul called.

    Those were the days.... :nod:
  10. SKluck

    SKluck First Round Draft Pick

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    It's really quite sickening. This is David Stern's new brand of basketball and I don't think I want to be a fan of it. Who cares who the NBA champ is when they wouldn't be there without the refs' help? Of course it's all about money. Creating or "helping" to create superstars means more $$$$, more jersey sales, more casual fans. More games = more ticket sales. I don't expect any nba finals to go less than 7 games ever again.

    I don't buy the bull%%%% that people say a good team can overcome the refs and bad calls. The refs can put teams that have no business being in games, in a position to win games. Or how about the fact that a single team like the Heat can be called so differently offensively and defensively? No one can touch Wade without getting a foul. But Posey and Haslem can MAUL Dirk and they get away with murder.

    If the FTA were switched, the game score would be 120-85. A 35pt blowout (Obviously they wouldn't have gotten to OT, but the point remains).

    But really, the ticky tack fouls aren't the problem. The problem is consistency. You can't expect the refs to call the same foul on each side of the court. You can't expect the refs to call the same foul in DIFFERENT BUILDINGS. How legitimate can a sport be when it's a completely different game on every building and each side of the court?
  11. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Missed most of the game due to travel, but saw the highlights and some of the post game comments. Interesting none of the ABC/ESPN - NBA media/commentators are commenting on the last foul called or the fact that Wade took as many fouls shots as the entire Mavs team. :frusty:

    Either they are afraid to say something in fear of losing their spot or they are happy:nod: that the Heat are up 3-2 no matter how they got there.

    Realistically this series should already be over with a 4-1 Mavs finals win. The problem is they don't know how to finish games so maybe they don't derserve to be champions. The two missed FT's by Howard was a classic choke job like Dirks in game 3.

    The Heat don't look like champions either as you make case that the either of the four teams that finished ahead of them pistons,Spurs, mavs or Suns are clearly better. But, you have to give to Wade for not only hitting key shots when needed, but being smart enough to know that Sterns' refs would bail him out when needed so just attack the rim and see what happens. If our own Mr. Bigshot would use that ploy more often without complaining, he would probably get more phanthom calls too.

    I am not really into conspiracies, but when teams are closely matched as these two now appear to be????, the refs could possibly give the edge to one if the other doesn't do what it has to do. This means that the Mavs have to play mistake free ball to get over the hump and win this. In other words if the Mavs take care of business in game 6 as they should, they will have to play above the refs to make sure that they win in game 7. Wade will do the same thing he has done in each game to get to the line if it is close or if they within a 6 point striking distance in the last 5 minutes.

    As a friend of mine said, ABC could stand for Anybody But Cuban, but I think the NBA nation wants to see Shaq get another ring just to prove his leagacy and hear his silly sound bites for the next year, ZO for sentimental health reasons, The Glove so that if there is chance he get to the HOF he has a ring to back him up, and Riley because dispite the Van Guilty situation with his coach, he is well liked and respected around the NBA.
  12. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Interesting but not surprising. ESPN has long been in cahoots with the people/leagues they cover. ABC is now along for the ride since they have morphed into the same network. ABC used to be the network of Wide World of Sports and the incomparable Jim McKay. Them days are long gone.
  13. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    "We run a disciplined offense here!", "Coach all the way with a red hot poker" "One on One"
    :nod: :mad:
  14. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Is it safe to say 2 Mavs blowouts are rife.
  15. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Yeah, all the ABC/ESPN folks on TV and radio seem to concentrate on was time out called by Josh Howard, and defending the refs for calling the TO. Greg Anthony was only one who indictated that it appeared that Howard was motioning to the bench should we call a TO?

    This potential heat championship will have a black flag over it as it appears that the better team is getting he shaft from the refs and the media types (and of course their own late FT shooting and lack of defense when it counts.)
  16. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    Micro, I think your observation is right on the mark, and it is something I had not really thought about. Wade should have made the shot, but missed it because he bailed out, not because of any incidental contact. Perhaps he was worried about an offensive foul call, or perhaps he was worried about his shot being blocked. But for reasons having nothing to do with the contact, he missed a shot he usually makes. And that should have been the game.
  17. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Note all the apologists out there--all the professional writers on Yahoo etc. who ignore what real basketball fans can see. They try and pull the rug over the smell. Absolutely, Wade went in and jacked up a shot out of control and was rewarded for it. That one against four brick wiped out what would have been the real story: Dirk hitting that tough shot over Shaq on the baseline. I am not watching this circus they dare to call baskeball.
  18. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    When this series started, I was pulling for Miami. I wanted our guys to spank em but I wazn't mad at em. I thought Miami had the better team and the better coaching (no dis to Avery). I thought they were hungrier. Besides, I would feel better having lost to the eventual champs rather than to the "chumps."

    After this last game, I'm changing my position. Miami's run smells so fishy that it outta have an asterick behind it eventually. To throw Stack outta the game for a hard foul on Shaq (of all people) was blatant. To call that foul on D-Wade at the end to allow him to win it from the line was blatant. Too bad Josh had to open his mouth.

    The refs (and powers that be) don't seem to want the PLAYERS to decide games these days. Except when they call time out. They act like they have too many Shaq and D-Wade jerseys all printed up and ready to go. And maybe they do!
  19. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    The only problem I have with Stacks foul was someone could have been hurt. That someone being under Shaq! I've seen guys dislocate their elbow from landing in a sit. like that. Stack had no play on the ball.
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Dirk's phantom foul ranks right up there with Laimbeer's in rigged sports history.

    Over and back... push off... push off... phantom foul... tough TO call. Nice string of events for the national TV audience to see.

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