Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mikhail1973, Aug 10, 2007.
The number 23? Michael Jordan? Future star? Coincidence?
Durant has rookie of the year locked up unless he gets hurt an plays less than 60 games.
Have to agree, it's a race for 2nd place though. Oden will take time to develop his game.
That may be a tough hurdle. On the Pistons, Rip Hamilton was the only player to accomplish that last year with 23.1. Sheed was at 22.0 and was in 2nd place.
Ben Wallace was at 18.2.
Also, Darko will be sharing with Pau Gasol, who averaged 20.8 ppg and 9.8 rpg.
I think you'd have to go with an overall measurement, like Roland Rating (the system that rated Lebron and Kobe 1 and 2 in the playoffs). His optimal performance will involve facilitating, fitting in, and producing. Basically, he needs to be somewhere between a ball hog and wallpaper.
You mean like, breathing with his eyes open?
Applies to big men. Obviously Chauncey beat the mark with points and assists.
Without looking at stats, I feel safe saying that LBJ, Wade, Bosh and Melo all hit or exceed that mark.
Yep, just checked, they are all in the 30+ range.
Heck TJ Ford was a 21.9 last season (points/assists)
If folks want to post about the resurrection of Darko and the failures of Joe Dumars as it relates to his pick, during this season, then I think it is high time he actually produces. In a measurable and obvious way.
If you count points, rebounds, assists and steals then Kobe beats that mark in just one quarter probably 1 out of every 4 or 5 games.
He averaged 44.1 last year or 11 a quarter. So maybe he doesn't get 23+ in a quarter in 1 out of every 4 or 5 games, but for sure in two quarters in just about every game.
Though I know for sure that he does get an occasional 23 + quarter.
You're expecting Darko to get Tyson Chandler-like numbers?
I believe that Dumars mistake with regard to Darko, was not realizing that Brown didn't like to play players that haven't learned their game in America.
I think if Joe D. had known this he probably would have taken someone like Bosh and not Darko.
If the Spurs had drafted Darko Pop would have done a lot better job in developing him than Brown did and Darko would be a top notch big man at this time.
I guess 23+ is a good benchmark if you expect him to be better than Sheed, Dyess, Ben Wallace, and Marcus Camby.
By the way, I was looking at the Pistons playoff stats before by mistake. Their regular season numbers are worse.
Sheed is only a 19.5
Webber is an 18.0
Dyess is a 14.1
Maxiell is a 7.8
Ben Wallace - 17.1
So Maxiell, who we love, only produces 1/3 of what you require for DM.
As for me, I'm not expecting big stats from Darko this year for the same reason he didn't get them last year. He is going to be part of a twin tower situation and will have to share/ defer more than he would if he went to a team where he was the lone big man.
I think that if he continues to be a force in the paint on offense and defense, and the Grizz get to the playoffs, then they will get what they paid for.
I simply expect him to start performing at the level of his draft classmates. The "intangible" Darko theory is starting to get out of control. Let's see some tangible points and rebounds on a night in, night out basis. Not the intangible ones that he tipped to teammates and the points he contributed to by making the pass that led to the pass that scored.
The amount of hyperbole, backtracking, spinmeistering when it comes to Darko is quite frankly, worthy of a presidential campaign.
Are we talking about Roland Rating? Because if we are, I debunked it last year on the Detroit News forum.
Well, there will always be an excuse. Player "X" takes all the shots, or player "Y" hogs the ball, or Coach "Z" doesn't use him effectively. Despite all of this, let's see some success, both individually and for the team. And by that, I mean putting up some #s. Memo does it as the 2nd option big man in Utah, shouldn't Memo #s be within DMC's reach?
They will probably get what they paid for. But he was drafted to be a max player big man after his rookie deal.
Look, my point is that if we're going to continue to monitor this guy's progress, with the insinuation (from some only) that his every success is a black eye on the Pistons, then I'd like to start talking about his success and growth in measurable terms.
No extra camera angles, no shootaround accuracy reports, no bloodflow, no European sportsmanship constraints (y'all know what I am talking about), no more hyperbole.
I think at some point you just have to get it done. I mean, you can be a Woody Austin sitting around and talking about how good you are, or you can produce some numbers and wins for your team. How many wins will the addition of Darko produce for Memphis?
All I'm saying is that he doesn't have to get to Lebron's level to be considered for most improved player.
I think that if he gets to Sheed's level, that would be a tremendous step.
That is tough to say. If they make the playoffs, the reason will be that Gasol is not injured and their rookies performed.
The only way he would get T'd up as much as Sheed is if Larry Brown became head of NBA officials.
No. I was talking about the un-debunkable Roscoe benchmark of 23 P+R/game. Maxiell gets about 7.
Ronald "Supe' Dup" Dupree. The pistons next black hole.
Certainly it is a difference of opinion, and I am no more, and perhaps much less qualified to set the bar, but if I am setting it, lets set it high.
As far as picking on a guy who simply doesn't get the minutes to produce the #s, I think you will find that pro-rating Maxiell to Darko's #s by minute will yield that Maxey was a comparable statistical player. With 2 less years in the league, millions less dollars, and a much lower return draft position.
Player Comparison Machine (Beta) - Basketball-Reference.com
Ron should be putting up Maurice Evans numbers this year...5 points and a couple of boards was Evans mark...so a total of 7 should be good for Dupree if he gets off the bench.
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