NBA Trade Rumor Dale Davis rumored to be traded to Seattle

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, Dec 19, 2006.

  1. max

    max All-Star

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    I recall Dumars/Hammons boasting about how fast they are to correct their own mistakes. You have a 6'10" one ready to go. The guy is disgruntled anyway about not playing enough mins.
     
  2. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    We have a Power Forward to spare (Dice IMO), but not a Center. We trade Nazr, and Dale is the only natural center on the roster. Dice is not a center (hardly even a pro basketball player right now), and Sheed plays more like a guard than he does a center. It just wouldn't work. Dale needs to be limited to 10-15 minutes tops, so that leaves us playing too much small-ball. Then if someone were to get injured we'd be SOL.

    If they want Dice for Watson I would say go for it. Even if McDyess rounds back into form, I'd still take Maxiell's interior dominance over another shooter.

    BTW, I'm not sure why Nazr gets ragged on as much as he does. His D is on par with McDyess (poor), and he's one of the few guys we have who can finish around the rim. He never gets post-touches or many minutes to speak of, yet he still manages to score pretty effeciently (57.4% FG).

    Not that I'm a big Nazr fan. I'd move him for another center if a deal came along, but right now we need his 20 minutes.
     
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Is it really true that Davis's minutes have to limited to 15 per game? I would suggest that we play him more in the 24 min range (1/2 the game).

    We should manage the C position like Orlando does. i.e. play Nazr in the 1st and 3rd and Davis in the 2nd and 4th. Nazr could keep his starting role and be spared the embarrassment of the demotion and Davis could finish the games without ever being in foul trouble. Our bench would get a quarter with Davis and so would our starters.

    But I agree that Nazr is adding value and shouldn't be traded unless we get a C in return.
     
  4. kpaav

    kpaav Team Captain Forum Donor

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    As stated Nazr is not a great player but he is one of our truly legit centers at 7 foot. Believe me, that size is needed to match up with the elite teams in the league -- Yao, Shaq, etc. Also, 30 million sounds like a huge amount, but it is only 5-6 million a season, not a whole lot when you consider the going rate of true big men that can finish and shoot.
     
  5. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Who would even want Nazr? IMO, he has little to no trade value.

    He isn't very good and he has a decent sized contract that doesn't expire for years.

    On second thought, maybe NY will want him...
     
  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Nazr pulls some boards... and more this his fair share of offensive ones. Also, he has a surprisinly good ability to finish with that reverse spinner off the glass. He doesn't look for outside shots and he plays hard. He's worth about what we are paying for him.

    My only problem with him is that I think we have a better Center on our bench... which is more of a problem with the coach than Nazr.

    There just aren't that many great centers out there. If you are not a team with a bad center, it is something that you take for granted.

    Here is how Nazr is ranking, among approximately 60 NBA Centers. These stats are per x timeframe and excluded players with less than 15 MPG.

    Points- 13th
    FG%- 7th
    Rebs- 11th
    Tot off rebs- 8th (not adjusted for time played)
    Blocks- 13th
    Ast- 35th
    Stls- 2nd!
    Pts+Reb+Ast- 17th
    TO's- there are 20 worse than him.

    So, given the limited time he plays, which is 19.2 MPG, he produces results that you expect from an AVERAGE starting center in the NBA. He excels in offensive rebounding, steals, and FG% efficiency. His stats show that he is a weak passer, but he doesn't turn it over excessively. And one thing these stats don't capture, but something we can all see, is that he is not a good help defender and doesn't intimidate. These are where the +/- come into play, which show that Davis is more effective in this area.

    Conclusion- we have an average center for an average price. Having an average starting center coming off of the bench would be great!
     
  7. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I don't think average is going to get done.
    We could make it stand if he is used correctly in all situations.
    Experience vs Potential
    If Amir has potential to be a solid to great center, would you start "giving" him minutes? Nazz has probably maxed out as far as skill is concerned.
    But then again the center in the Piston system just won't get that many touches on the Off. end to prove he's dominant.
     
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    TaShawn, where does Davis rate?
     
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Here is the problem when comparing Davis. First of all, he didn't show up on the NBA.com list because he hasn't played enough minutes. On the year, he has been out there for 130 minutes, or 2.7 full games. Some of those minutes were early in the year during garbage time.

    With such a small sample, you really can't extrapolate with confidence. Even so, here is goes:

    Naz/Davis (per 19.4 minutes, which is what Naz gets)

    Pts- 6.8/ 2.9
    Reb- 5.4/ 4.0
    Ast- 0.1/ .77
    St- .71/ .15
    Blck- 1.14/ 1.77

    However, I think the true value of Davis gets picked up in the +/- haze.

    Per 100 possessions,
    Nazr is -.10 while he is on the court
    Pistons are +3.1 while he is on the bench.

    Davis is +12.1 while on the court
    Pistons are -.2 when he sits.

    With Nazr, we get 49% of the rebounds with 29.6% of the offensive. We allow an effective FG% of 48.8%.

    With Davis, we get 54.5% of the boards with 36.3% of the offensive. We allow an eFG% of 42.7%.


    Why do we get a higher share of rebs with Davis in the game, yet Davis doesn't average more boards than Nazr? Reasons might include:
    1) he plays help D and forces the opponents to shoot a lower FG%, which creates a higher % of defensive rebounding opportunities for teammates
    2) he boxes out, which allows other guys to get more boards
    3) he has more court time logged with Delfino and JMax, who may be good rebounders.
    4) statistical abberation due to small sample size. i.e. Davis has been lucky.
     
  10. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Wow, nice work TaShawn.
     
  11. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Very interesting but not very discernable.
     
  12. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Dale is 37. If we want to have him available in the playoffs (where I'd easily give him the 25 minutes or so as you said), we have to keep his minutes down now.
     
  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Yea, I thought Davis's stats would blow Nazr's away in a head to head. I guess I was blinded by the intangibles.

    I think we all sort of subconsciously hate on Nazr when he gives up the free chili because he replaced Ben, and it is such a contrast. When Naz does things that Ben never did, like make tough shots in a crowd, they are taken for granted.

    Maybe Davis isn't better, he's just more Ben-like. Our starting 4 are capable of scoring on their own, and they have not adapted to compensate for Ben or take advantage of Naz. It is obvious that Sheed and Dyess were trying to play more interior D and rebound more, but they seem to be slowly fading away from that. It's tough work in the trenches and it takes away from your scoring.
     
  14. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Sorry FP22 if this old guy can't carry his weight all season...move him. Why wreck your system to put in an old ringer? Same for Dice, if we're coddling him because of his weak knees but think we can milk him for big minutes and pts in the playoffs, you're going into the playoffs with uncertainties.
    Dance with who brung ya.
     
  15. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Starting five through 20 games +2

    Starting four with Davis +17

    I'm not sure anyone has figured out how to play with Nazr yet and at 20 MPG, not clear they will ever figure it out. $6 mil is a terrible thing to waste.
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Someone should run Nazr's #s from last season with the Spurs to provide historical perspective...
     
  17. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Your number 1 and 2 are right on.
     
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    His stats are almost idential to last year with the Spurs. Slight uptick in blocks, thats to be expected since every team seems to want to pound the paint against us now. Career wise, pretty much a typical season for him. Also the same complaints have followed him here - butter fingers, questionable D at times.

    If anyone is waiting for him to get better its probably not going to happen.

    NBA.com : Nazr Mohammed Info Page
     
  19. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    I wonder if Joe could work a deal for Dale Davis like he did with Hunter (trade and reacquire off the wire)... from a team that is just over the lux threshold. This could be a win/win.

    Teams that might fit this scenario:
    Denver (Boykins)
    Warriors (Pietrus & filler)
    Suns (Barbosa or Diaw & Rose)
    Grizzlies (Gay & Filler)
    Nets (Wright & House)
    Sixers (some kinda deal including Willie Green)
    Blazers (something involving Dixon or Jarett Jack)
    Spurs (Butler, Bowen or Finley)
    Wizards (Haywood)

    *these teams are close to the tax... these trades are not all exact salary matches and may have to include salary filler or picks
     
  20. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I think they made a rule in the last CBA so that couldn't happen. I can't remember the details and I lost the link to the CBA F.A.Q. site Roscoe had a while ago.

    Maybe someone (roscoe) could be so kind as to repost that link if they (roscoe) had some time. I don't know who (roscoe) might be able to do that, but it would be greatly appreciated if someone (roscoe) could.
     

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