1. Football Picks Survivor is done for 2014. Congrats to billlaimbeer from The Pistons Forum

New Charlie Rosen article about Underachievers

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by lazyberbs, Sep 11, 2006.

  1. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Central Michigan
    Am I wrong in my thinking that not very many of us are impressed by Charlie? At any rate, what do you guys think about this latest?

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5948258

    Sheed is on it. Arroyo just missed it. :stirthepot: .

    Anybody agree or disagree with his candidates?
     
  2. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,482
    Likes Received:
    496
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    I was surprised Barkely was on it. Sheed I can reluctantly agree with.
    Coleman and Webber had an assortment of injuries so I can't hold that on them. When Healthy Coleman was a force.

    Tim Thomas never should have gotten that huge contract. The Bucks gave it to him after he won the 6th man award.

    Surprising he included Arroyo as he is only a bench player.
     
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,956
    Likes Received:
    2,783
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Charlie is equally mean to everyone, but he dislikes Sheed in particular.
     
  4. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,445
    Likes Received:
    897
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Except for that part where he helped detroit win the most coveted prize n the NBA, Sheed's been a major disappointment.

    i don't know about anyone else. what about chris anderson. oliver miller.

    barkley, coleman...that reminds me of those chicago cops in TheFugitive...why'd he kill his wife? She was rich. He's a doctor, he's already rich. She was more rich.

    what are people expecting,,,
     
  5. Superstarov

    Superstarov First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    720
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Midland, MI
    I agree with the Vince Carter comment.

    I have never bought into the hype surrounding that glamour boy.
     
  6. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NY, NY
    Have to agree with Rosen. Love Sheed, and when he's on, he's on. But for the talent he has, at this point in his career he should be considered for the next NBA All Time 50 list, not just another good big man.

    A name Charlie forgot, LB. Larry could have, and should have repeated with Detroit, and possibly three-peated (tm by Pat Reiley) but he let his prima donna ego get in the way of his coaching. He also should have had multiple 'ships with San Antonio, but again, ego got his butt canned. Imagine David Robinson and Tim Duncan coached by an almost sane LB.
     
  7. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,030
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Oberlin
    like all such lists, it really depends on how you measure achievement. i'd say if his measure is individual statistics, then he's probably right to include sheed. sheed's obviously an enormous talent who could be (or could have been) putting up 20/10 numbers on a regular basis. but if you factor in the things he does that don't necessarily show up on the individual stat sheet, then i'm not so sure.

    yes, he is emotionally unstable. but that is the same quality that at times changes the game in his team's favor. should he learn to funnel the emotional energy only in the positive/constructive direction? oh sure. that's be great no doubt. and right after that he can sit under the lotus tree and lead us all to awakening. in the meantime, i'll take his "underachieving" volatility and proudly call it my own.
     
  8. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    2
    So far Sheed has underachieved, but he knows along with everyone else on the Pistons that they are not unstoppable anymore, and they'll have to all step up and work hard to bring back the championship.

    Sheed will definantly be an underchiever if he doesn't step up this year. He has to know that he has to be a big leader for this team and if he can play to his ability this season he's off the list.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,956
    Likes Received:
    2,783
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Great post Prof. You can't have the Ying without Sheed's Wu-tang!
     
  10. SKluck

    SKluck First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rasheed has been an underachiever his entire career. I respect the fact that he just doesn't have the drive to will his way to greatness like Kobe or AI or Duncan for that matter. The man could've been one of the greatest power forwards to ever play the game.

    This list seems pretty good I think. It is basically a list of guys that have all the skill in the world, but are a bit lacking upstairs and for whatever reason never reach the next level.
     
  11. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Central Michigan
    I guess I am having a senior moment but I am trying to think of an Atlanta player back in the late 80s/early 90s. He was a 4 or 5, and the Pistons made a huge offer and Atlanta matched it, and it came out that Detroit did not want him but wanted Atlanta to break the bank on him. And they did. He should have been on the list because I cannot even remember his name. Do any of you guys?

    I also have another one I would like to get your ideas on. He is a HOF member but I remember him more for all the injury shortened seasons. It seems to me he could have been so much more but evidently I am wrong because he is in the HOF. You might have guess by now that I refer to the one and only :lame: BILL WALTON. Do you guys think he did enought to be in the HOF? Or does he belong on this list?
     
  12. lurker

    lurker First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    San Diego
    Sounds like Jon Koncak.
     
  13. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    16,227
    Likes Received:
    4,178
    Location:
    Michigan
    Injuries slowed down his NBA career, but Walton's college years alone got him into the HOF:

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Walton enrolled at UCLA in 1970. He played center for John Wooden's Varsity team for three seasons (1972-1974), after a year with the freshman team in 1971. He was a member of two NCAA championship teams compiling an NCAA record 88 consecutive game winning streak.

    Bill Walton is a three-time recipient of the NCAA Player of the Year Award, 1972, '73 and '74. Walton is a 3 time All-American College Player and winner of the Sullivan Award for the United States Best Amateur Athlete of 1973. He was named to the Pacific 8 All-Conference first team 3 times and was conference player of the year for three consecutive years. At UCLA Walton was a scholar-athlete who also earned Academic All-American honors three years in a row. He graduated with honors with a B.A. in history.

    Walton's professional career began when he was the number one over all pick in the 1974 NBA Draft by the Portland Trailblazers. He was a member of their championship team in 1977. Nine years later he earned another championship title, this time with the Boston Celtics in 1986. He played with the Trailblazers 1974-1979, the San Diego Clippers 1979-1984, the relocated Los Angeles Clippers in 1985, and The Boston Celtics 1985-1988.

    Bill Walton was the NBA's Most Valuable Player, 1978; all-NBA First Team, 1978; NBA All-Star Team, 1977 and 1978; NBA Playoff's MVP, 1977; all-NBA second team, 1977; winner of the NBA Sixth Man Award, 1986. Walton is also the second of only four players in the history of the NBA to lead the league in both blocked shots and rebounding in the same season.

    He remains active in basketball through clinics, camps, coaching, and television commentary. He started his broadcasting career in 1990 as an analyst for the then Prime Ticket Network. Walton worked for CBS Sports in the early 90's during the NCAA Final Four and then for NBC for many years, including work on the 1996 Atlanta and 2000 Sydney Summer Olympic Games. Over the last 15 years he has worked for ABC, ESPN, NBC, CBS, Fox, MSNBC, Turner Sports, KCAL, and the NBA. Walton is also involved in numerous internet ventures providing content and business acumen.

    Walton received the 1991 NBPA's Oscar Robertson Leadership Award. In 2002, he received the NBA Retired Player's Association Humanitarian Award. In 1992, 1993, 1995,1996, 1998, 1999 and 2000, the Southern California Sports Broadcasters Association honored Walton with the Best Television Analyst/Commentator award. In 2002, he was hired as the lead analyst for ESPN/ABC's coverage of the NBA. He is also a regular contributor to ESPN.com, NBA.com, ESPN The Magazine, and ESPN Radio. During the 2002 NBA Playoffs, Walton exhilarated in the Love It Live Tour of America - a 30 game, 30 day extravaganza - covering over 40,000 miles. This life-changing experience was chronicled in a daily journal published on NBA.com, and consists of over 56,000 words, hundreds of photos, and endless fun.

    For more: Bill Walton's Biography
     
  14. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    446
    Location:
    Ann Arbor/Chicago/Walland, TN
    Sorry if I hijack a bit the intent of your post, but this line really got me to thinking.

    This wasn't a guy who came into college as an unproved player. He was a well known high school player on a team that won something like 50 straight games. And he still had to play on the freshman team because freshmen weren't allowed to play varsity sports. Pretty amazing changes over the last 35 years. European players get plucked off their high school teams and the NBA isn't far behind.

    You got to wonder where it will end. Three and four year olds are being taught to read, six year olds are interviewing to get into the best schools. How long until professional sports starts doing genetic testing and signing up kids for training camps when they are ten...

    Oh for a smilie on a soapbox.
     
  15. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,030
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Oberlin
    yes! thank you BillL. I know Big Red takes a lot of guff for his on air antics -- they've been covered sufficiently in another thread somewhere -- but he was really something to see through 1977, when, as you point out, injuries took him out. Rebounding, highly efficient scoring, passing, and an understanding of the flows of the game that really I haven't seen in a big man since.
     
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,855
    Likes Received:
    3,267
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Charley is being pretty rough in that list. I guess it is a compliment to Carlos Arroyo to be on a list with Charles Barkely though.
     
  17. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    16,227
    Likes Received:
    4,178
    Location:
    Michigan
    Sure, if you think being compared to a big-mouthed, fat, lazy, egotistical, underachieving, ignorant bigot is a compliment...
     
  18. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Central Michigan
    Bll Laimbeer, Now don't hem and haw. Just come right out and say what you mean.:pound: :pound:.

    I wintered in AZ during the time Barkley was there and I really got tired of his antics late at night, during the season. He was out bar hopping while his teammates were going along with the rules. He was arrested several times for assaulting citizens in bars and right outside them, but of course, nothing came of them. I do believe I remember him paying off one of them, but the point is, why was he out drinking when he was supposed to be trying to help his team win.

    I believe that was no accident that he never won a 'ship.

    And about Bill, I always liked him but was frustrated with his physical problems. I knew he should be in any college HOF but did not remember all the good things he did as a pro. When he won his second ring in the pros, though, he was not a major contributor. He did fill a need off the bench, and that should count for something. I always thought he was very well coordinated for a 7 footer.

    And when Lew Alcindor left UCLA, and Bill slid in, they never missed a beat.
     
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,956
    Likes Received:
    2,783
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    In '86 at the age of 33, Walton came off the bench for the Celtics in the playoffs, averaging 18 minutes, 7.9 points, 6.4 rebounds.

    Pretty darn good player. Comparable (if not better than) Antonio McDyess in the last two Detroit Pistons playoff years.
     
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,855
    Likes Received:
    3,267
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    I was thinking more of the Hall of Fame thing.

    For some reason, I see Barkley as overachieving, given his size and shape. He's very short and had a nickname that started "The Round Mound of..." yet he was usually the best player on the court.

    I'm not a big fan of his, but I still like him better than Bill Walton.
     

Share This Page